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Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 4:28 pm |
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verktyg |
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Joined: 14 Jan 2007 |
Posts: 2814 |
Location: SF Bay Area |
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In the Pulsus a mortuus equus (beating a dead horse) category, one of the French members of the CR List (Classic Rendezvous List) inquired about who built some bikes ridden by Hinault and LeMond in the 1985 Coors Classic.
Nicolas, here's a chance to shine once again...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/encouragement/185342090/
Here's 4 more pictures of the Dynamic Duo in the same race:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/encouragement/sets/72157594210626999/
I know that we kicked this subject to death last year and several of our "in house" experts provided us with some private insights so maybe we can reopen the case of who built what!
Alex March from Bordeaux, FR inquired:
"Does anyone know who made these Hinault bikes? Did Greg Lemond ride an identical bike (I've seen pictures of the Coors Classic where Hinault was riding one of these, Lemond was on a Huffy : http://www.flickr.com/photos/encouragement/185342090/)? Were they commercialised at the time, or was the Hinault bike reserved to the team, creating an image Hinault could then use when he set up his own commercial brand? What was the arrangement with the sponsor, La Vie Claire?"
This is the Hinault bike on eBay that got the inquiry started:
http://tinyurl.com/29et5a5
Some CR "expert" already chimed in:
"The Look frames from 84 small triangles and 85 large triangles were made by the Legune bros. to Bearnard's geometry I was told this by the US importers Road Gear..."
Did he mean Lejeune?
Now the expert speculation begins over there...
There are those that believe in the sanctitude of well know European trade names... and I can offer you your choice of at least 5 different bridges in the SF Bay Area!
Greg LeMond rode this brand bike and George Washington slept here too! |
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_________________ Chas.
SF Bay Area, CA USA
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1984 Criterium
1969 TdF
1971 TdF
1974 TdF
1984 TdF x 2 Bikes
1970 SC
1971 SC
1972 SC
1984 SC
1984 Team Pro
1985 Professional
1990s Team Replica |
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Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:15 pm |
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lofter |
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Joined: 05 Mar 2006 |
Posts: 1162 |
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i believe nicolas interviewed hinault and he said they were made by motobecane. they did make them availible to the public as i was going to buy one over in french ebayland and have it shipped back. |
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Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:16 pm |
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lofter |
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Joined: 05 Mar 2006 |
Posts: 1162 |
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the look frames were actually made by look |
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| | | | | | | | | Huffy and Hinault | | | | | |
Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:57 pm |
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verktyg |
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Joined: 14 Jan 2007 |
Posts: 2814 |
Location: SF Bay Area |
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The bikes pictured in the first first link:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/encouragement/185342090/
Lemond is on a "Huffy" and Hinault is on a Hinault?
Now the prognostications begin:
"Also, the Huffys ridden by lemond and the 7-11 guys weren't made by huffy at all. They were made by Ben Serotta."
"Were those "Huffies" built by Tom Kellogg? I know he did some for the Olympic Team, perhaps in '76."
"Greg LeMond's "Huffy" was built by Roland Della Santa, though Serotta also built several 7-11 team bikes."
As I said, "George Washington slept here" |
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_________________ Chas.
SF Bay Area, CA USA
==============
1984 Criterium
1969 TdF
1971 TdF
1974 TdF
1984 TdF x 2 Bikes
1970 SC
1971 SC
1972 SC
1984 SC
1984 Team Pro
1985 Professional
1990s Team Replica |
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Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:29 am |
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sandranian |
Site Admin |
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Joined: 27 Feb 2006 |
Posts: 2701 |
Location: Southern California |
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I'll bet Lemond's "Huffy" was built by Motobecane (same builder as the "Hinault"), but was badged differently.
I guess perhaps the producer of the "stickers" is the real question? |
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Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 5:26 am |
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lofter |
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Joined: 05 Mar 2006 |
Posts: 1162 |
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yup , i think ur right sandman |
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Huffy and Hinault | | | | | |
Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 11:28 pm |
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Wisey |
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Joined: 19 May 2009 |
Posts: 631 |
Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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verktyg wrote: |
"Also, the Huffys ridden by lemond and the 7-11 guys weren't made by huffy at all. They were made by Ben Serotta."
As I said, "George Washington slept here" |
Unless your name was Andy Hampsten, and then your Serrotta built Huffy was actually built by John Slaughter (LandShark)
Chas, did old George really sleep right there at your place? |
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_________________ Kind Regards,
Wisey
Delta Dreamin' |
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Huffy and Hinault | | | | | |
Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 9:13 am |
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verktyg |
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Joined: 14 Jan 2007 |
Posts: 2814 |
Location: SF Bay Area |
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Wisey wrote: |
verktyg wrote: |
"Also, the Huffys ridden by lemond and the 7-11 guys weren't made by huffy at all. They were made by Ben Serotta."
As I said, "George Washington slept here" |
Unless your name was Andy Hampsten, and then your Serrotta built Huffy was actually built by John Slaughter (LandShark)
Chas, did old George really sleep right there at your place? |
When he was a young officer working for the Virgina Militia he surveyed the WHOLE country! I had him over for tea and biscuits one night!
BTW, the snippets that I put in quotes were responses from other posters, not mine...
The reason I'm so cynical about this is the religious like worship that some bike collectors have for certain (mainly Italian) marques.
There may have been up to 5 different bike makers who produced Masi frames in Italy and I know several different builders here in the US who made Masi USA frames.
Eddy Merckx used bikes made by at least 3 different builders plus off the rack Peugeots when he first turned pro.
Greg LeMond rode frames made by a multitude of builders. Since he was born in Reno, NV he more than likely had a special relationship with Reno frame builder Roland Della Santa.
Della Santa made frames for Greg and also some of the Team Z team bikes. Others were made by Italian builder Billato (who also made PDM Concordes).
Last year I had a chance to buy an unpainted Della Santa Team Z frame that was built for LeMond that he never took. It had complete documentation including the original sales order, original decals and the drawings signed off by LeMond.
Except for the early Anquetil bikes which were reputed to be Heyletts, I've never heard that the famous Gitane riders rode anything but bikes built by Gitane!
Like I said, George slept here. |
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Last edited by verktyg on Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:36 am; edited 1 time in total _________________ Chas.
SF Bay Area, CA USA
==============
1984 Criterium
1969 TdF
1971 TdF
1974 TdF
1984 TdF x 2 Bikes
1970 SC
1971 SC
1972 SC
1984 SC
1984 Team Pro
1985 Professional
1990s Team Replica |
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Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 9:27 am |
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sandranian |
Site Admin |
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Joined: 27 Feb 2006 |
Posts: 2701 |
Location: Southern California |
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Lemond's Gitane's were made by Gitane, in Machecoul. No doubt about it. |
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| | | | | | | | | More dead horse flogging | | | | | |
Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:34 pm |
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verktyg |
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Joined: 14 Jan 2007 |
Posts: 2814 |
Location: SF Bay Area |
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sandranian wrote: |
Lemond's Gitane's were made by Gitane, in Machecoul. No doubt about it. |
As I mentioned, I've never heard anything to the contrary (except for early Anquetil bikes right after Gitane bought Heylett).
Getting back to the equine flogging, here's a little tidbit I ran across about Billato, Greg LeMond and others...
..."If the name is unfamiliar, it is because until recently the large numbers of frames that were built by the Billato family business, which was founded by Silvio Billato in 1954, were then sold under another name.
It's a practice with a long tradition in Italy, and one that is usually kept quiet for obvious reasons. A little digging, however, produces a few nuggets: one famous customer of Billato was the once-great firm of Legnano...
The emphasis was always on the high end, lightweight sector of the market, and the firm built around 12,000 frames for the Belgian Concorde marque, including the frames for Sean Kelly's PDM squad.
Billato also built the Greg Lemond bikes ridden by the Z and GAN teams as well as Lemond's own range of steel road bike frames.
Once Silvio's sons, Roberto and Silvano, who joined the firm in 1979 and 1984 respectively, [and] began to take over the reins, the firm started to concentrate on small-scale, top-level production, and when the Look- sponsored Chris Boardman needed a steel-tubed frame for his athlete's hour record, the French composites specialist [Look] turned to Billato."
Here's another link I ran across with some great pictures of the Badger, LeMond and Gitane bikes (you have to scroll through the chaff).
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?p=322544 |
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_________________ Chas.
SF Bay Area, CA USA
==============
1984 Criterium
1969 TdF
1971 TdF
1974 TdF
1984 TdF x 2 Bikes
1970 SC
1971 SC
1972 SC
1984 SC
1984 Team Pro
1985 Professional
1990s Team Replica |
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Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:57 pm |
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Wisey |
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Joined: 19 May 2009 |
Posts: 631 |
Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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By the time of Team Z and Gan, all the bikes had to be outsourced as those teams rod Greg LeMond frames before that company began any manufacture of its own. As I remember it, the early carbon frames were by TVT. The story goes that Greg wanted only the best that was available (my guess is that he wanted the weight of the carbon, but needed something with a little more rigidity) and he contracted a small Brit company that was building custom carbon bikes. These were the all black lugged carbon frames with the flared webbing on the inside surfaces of the lugs. The company went on to be Calfee Design. |
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_________________ Kind Regards,
Wisey
Delta Dreamin' |
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| | | | | | | | | Pulsus a mortuus equus | | | | | |
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