gitaneusa.com Forum Index » Vintage Gitane » Model ID? And parts questions.    View previous topic :: View next topic  Model ID? And parts questions.   Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:49 pm carlmorrell Joined: 11 Aug 2011 Posts: 13 First post. Sorry it's a long one. Please help. I am the original owner of an early 70's Gitane. I wanted a 10 speed as a thirteen year old and mowed lawns for the summer to earn money towards it. I saved up $100, and would have been happy with a Schwinn. My Dad was a mechanic and recognized the better machine. I believe it was $183 and he pitched in the difference. I rode this thing to death, more than once. Painted it several times. It has been out to the curb for garbage collection twice, but somehow I still have it. I have decided to do an original restoration. I am doing it strictly for sentimental reasons. I need a little help with a few things. To start with, which model is this? Let's assume my memory is correct, 1971 would have been the summer. I remember the shop had 3 Gitane models. This was the least expensive. So I am guess it was not a "Tour de France" model. I seem to remember "Champion du Monde", but that might have been the decal on the Mavic rims. Some parts still are original: The chain shifter is a Suntour Spirt. Rear cluster is 14-21 Atom. Normandy hubs MM Atom quick releases Mafac racer centerpulls Mavic tubular rims. Broken/Replaced parts: Derailleur was a Suntour V?? Maybe V GT. ??? Handelbar post 22.2mm ??? Was it an Atax?????? What were the original chain wheels brand??? & size guessing 40-52.??? Interclub?   Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:10 pm verktyg Joined: 14 Jan 2007 Posts: 2814 Location: SF Bay Area Welcome... Did you bike come with decals like these? It's probably an Interclub which was Gitane's amateur racing model. They came with alloy rims and tubular tires (sewups). Gitanes shipped with a variety of different brand steel cottered cranks back then. The chainrings could have had 52-42, 52-40 or 52-36 teeth. The freewheels were usually Atom or Normandy 14-24T. 1971 was at the beginning of the US Bike Boom and components were frequently substituted. The bike would have originally had plastic Simplex Prestige derailleurs. Interclubs sold for under $150. Because your dad was a mechanic, he may have had the bike shop replace the original Simplex derailleurs with metal Suntour derailleurs. That would have brought the price up to the $183 that you remember. Interclubs had cast aluminum Pivo stems and aluminum bars. the stems had a 22.0mm diameter quill not 22.2. Here's the spec sheet for 1970-1974 Gitanes http://www.gitaneusa.com/images/catalog/1970_pg11.jpg You can get replacement decals on eBay: http://tinyurl.com/3ruftu7 I'm currently building my Interclub frame pictures at the top as a single speed. NOT A FIXIE!!! Steel wool will clean up most of the rust on the chrome plated steel parts. Have fun with you rebuild. _________________ Chas. SF Bay Area, CA USA ============== 1984 Criterium 1969 TdF 1971 TdF 1974 TdF 1984 TdF x 2 Bikes 1970 SC 1971 SC 1972 SC 1984 SC 1984 Team Pro 1985 Professional 1990s Team Replica   Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:29 pm carlmorrell Joined: 11 Aug 2011 Posts: 13 Chas, Thanks for your reply, it was informative. It's great to dive into something new and find enthusiasts. I had looked at the catalogs on this website, and since the gears and parts listed did not match exactly what I have, I decided to call out for help. The only discrepancy I see between my frame, and the pic of yours is your seat-stay has two cross members. Mine has only one with the brake mount. But that could be because my frame seems really small at 21 1/2". I do remember the seat tube and down tube decals. In fact, the seat tube decal on my bike was hastily put on, and had a crease in it! I can assure you this bike with the 14-21 rear cluster, and Suntour shifters, is the way the shop had this bike on the floor. In fact, it was at a Honda motorcycle shop. The shop owner was a neighbor and I was friends with the owners sons. The year I bought the bike, it was their first year selling bicycles. They might have been upgrading the bikes before they put them on the floor, but I really doubt that. I remember quite a bit about that day, it was a significant experience to me at the time. Glad you pointed out the 22.2 -vs- 22. My next challenge is to avoid replacing all the other parts ! Right now I have many broken spokes, worn hubs, and concave Wiemann 7/8" clinchers. And want to go back to the tubulars. The color I had was that orange. And I am sure there are no hidden remnants of that. I will have to hope to get lucky on picking a color. Should I shoot a single stage paint? Or do a base coat/clear coat two stage paint, and put the decals under the clear coat? I am thinking the metallic on the decals would not look good clear coated. Many thanks for your help! Carl   Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:17 pm verktyg Joined: 14 Jan 2007 Posts: 2814 Location: SF Bay Area carlmorrell wrote: The only discrepancy I see between my frame, and the pic of yours is your seat-stay has two cross members. Mine has only one with the brake mount. But that could be because my frame seems really small at 21 1/2". What you are seeing is a brazed on bridge for the brake cable stop. Gitane discontinued these about 1972. carlmorrell wrote: I do remember the seat tube and down tube decals. In fact, the seat tube decal on my bike was hastily put on, and had a crease in it! The crease in the seat tube decal was probably the result of gripping the bike by the seat tube in a repair stand. Any kind of side ways twisting while working on the bike would munge the decal. Very common occurrence at most bike shops. carlmorrell wrote: I can assure you this bike with the 14-21 rear cluster, and Suntour shifters, is the way the shop had this bike on the floor. In fact, it was at a Honda motorcycle shop. The shop owner was a neighbor and I was friends with the owners sons. The year I bought the bike, it was their first year selling bicycles. They might have been upgrading the bikes before they put them on the floor, but I really doubt that. I remember quite a bit about that day, it was a significant experience to me at the time. Carl, I'm not questioning your memory just sharing my experiences. I worked at 2 Gitane dealers in the 70s and assembled a number of Interclubs back then. I've also owned several of them. An Atom or Normandy 14-24T freewheel was standard on Gitane performance bikes back then too. You have an Atom 14-24T freewheel. During the Bike Boom of the early 70s it was common for European bike makers to substitute components. The demand for bike parts far outstripped the French component manufacturer's capacity to supply them. Occasionally Gitane used 14-26T 5 speed freewheels on their performance model bikes sold in the US. As I mentioned, Simplex Prestige derailleurs were the standard parts used on Gitane Interclubs imported into the US between 1968 and 1974-75. From the 1970-74 Gitane US Catalog Around 1973 Gitane shipped a few Gran Sport and Interclub bikes into the US equipped with Suntour derailleurs. Prior to that, Suntour had not established their reputation and were still considered "cheap Japanese junk" by many. It was viewed as a temporary solution to availability problems with French parts. In the European market many Gitanes came equipped with Huret Svelto or Huret Allvit derailleurs. Huret Svelto rear derialleur http://tinyurl.com/44w4omj Huret Allvit rear derailleur http://tinyurl.com/3z5fspf The French thought highly of the Huret Allvit derailleurs, they were the French "all metal" response to Campagnolo (versus the Delrin plastic Simplex derailleurs). Think Citroën 2CV, the Maginot line... From the mid 60s there was a very strong push for using French components only on French bikes - Gallic pride. You get my drift. In the US Huret Allvit derailleurs were tainted by their connection with Schwinn clunkers and cheap Bike Boom 10 speeds! Your bike may have come from the Gitane factory with Suntour derailleurs but in 1971 (the bike was probably manufactured in 1970) it wasn't likely. Back then too, Gitanes were distributed by several wholesalers as well as the importer Mel Pinto Imports. One of those entities may have changed out the Simplex derailleurs for Suntour. As I mentioned before, Interclubs were selling for under $150 back then. As a comparison, the 1968 Gitane price list shows the Gran Sport model at $94.50 suggested retail and the Interclub at $119.50. In 1972-73 Gran Sports were selling for under $90 retail so your 1971 cost could easily reflect the replacement of Simplex derailleurs with Suntour. Labor was cheap back then and many bike shops did component changes as a regular part of the sale. My first Gitane, a 1972 orange Gran Sport had MAFAC brakes. I wanted Weinmann brakes so the shop changed them for me, no charge. carlmorrell wrote: Right now I have many broken spokes, worn hubs, and concave Wienmann 7/8" clinchers. And want to go back to the tubulars. Don't waste your time with the spokes. Back during the Bike Boom manufacturers used cheap spokes that broke all of the time! The Normandy Sport hubs that came on you bike were used on millions of entry level to mid range bikes. Most of those have morphed into Asian made cars several times over during the past 40 year. They have been out of production since the mid 80s. Only a small percentage of lower priced Bike Boom era bikes came with sewups. Most of those were converted to clincher rims years ago. You may luck out and find a complete set of sewup wheels to fit your bike but your best bet is to find a set of Normandy Sport hubs on eBay and then get some period correct sewup rims and have new wheels built. Your bike used a 120mm wide rear hub. from the late 70s most hubs were 126mm wide for 6 speed freewheels. Good luck... carlmorrell wrote: The color I had was that orange. And I am sure there are no hidden remnants of that. I will have to hope to get lucky on picking a color. Should I shoot a single stage paint? Or do a base coat/clear coat two stage paint, and put the decals under the clear coat? I am thinking the metallic on the decals would not look good clear coated. I'd use a thin coat of primer plus 1 or 2 thin coated of the orange top color. Follow that with a low gloss layer of clear coat. the replacement foil decals are on a thicker, tougher material than the original Gitane foil decals. _________________ Chas. SF Bay Area, CA USA ============== 1984 Criterium 1969 TdF 1971 TdF 1974 TdF 1984 TdF x 2 Bikes 1970 SC 1971 SC 1972 SC 1984 SC 1984 Team Pro 1985 Professional 1990s Team Replica   Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 6:39 am carlmorrell Joined: 11 Aug 2011 Posts: 13 Chas, I can't thank you enough for all your help. So maybe I bought my bike in 1972. I guess I am not doing a restoration, more of a resto-mod. As such, I think I will still try to make it look like it did when I bought it. The catalog Pic you referred me to certainly is the closest I have seen to what my bike looked like new. Except for the few differences I noted. Probably the only one I have seen with the same plastic seat. I can't seem to find my Zefal Solibloc, nor the frame mounting brackets. Being the packrat I am, it has me baffled. I saw a pump on ebay like mine, but no way am I going to pay $200 for it. One more thing, that is a 14-21 cluster.   Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 6:46 am carlmorrell Joined: 11 Aug 2011 Posts: 13 Chas (The Gitane Guru!), Since this bike is not really going to get ridden, I am going to stick with the Normandy hubs I have. It's been a long time since I have built up a wheel. When I go back to a tubular (Mavic) rim, do I still use the 12 1/2" spokes? Can you recommend any brand? Thanks again, Carl   Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 6:44 pm verktyg Joined: 14 Jan 2007 Posts: 2814 Location: SF Bay Area carlmorrell wrote: Since this bike is not really going to get ridden, I am going to stick with the Normandy hubs I have. It's been a long time since I have built up a wheel. When I go back to a tubular (Mavic) rim, do I still use the 12 1/2" spokes? Can you recommend any brand? Thanks again, Carl Carl, Over the past 30+ years, spokes have been measured with metric dimensions - the distance from under the head to the end of the threads. 12 1/2" is 317.5mm which is way long for 27" or 700c/sewup wheels. The spoke lengths should be about 294mm for 3x and 304mm for 4x crossing. Most spokes sold today are stainless steel. They are stronger than the old carbon steel spokes and you never have to worry about rust or corrosion. For your use they are all pretty good. The old Union brand German made spokes were good and were available in chrome plated or zinc plated. The zinc plated US made Torrington spokes were very good too. You might find some of these at at old bike shop. You can still get replacement cones and axles from Wheels Manufacturing, Inc. Find them on the web. Also try to find an old Schwinn dealer. They probably have Normandy parts coming out their ears. _________________ Chas. SF Bay Area, CA USA ============== 1984 Criterium 1969 TdF 1971 TdF 1974 TdF 1984 TdF x 2 Bikes 1970 SC 1971 SC 1972 SC 1984 SC 1984 Team Pro 1985 Professional 1990s Team Replica   Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 7:13 am carlmorrell Joined: 11 Aug 2011 Posts: 13 Chas, Thinks again so much! Given all the rims I went through, and what I had access to, I am not surprised I have the wrong spokes. Ok one more question. Bike is almost disassembled except for bearing seats in the head tube and the bottom bracket. I am afraid I don't remember how to disassemble the bottom bracket. Any words of wisdom? I have a ring wrench, but I don't think it is exactly the correct size. Are any threads left handed? Wish me luck! BTW, I ordered decals, pivo stem, and a NOS Suntour Spirt for $14 shipped. Will wait patiently for a Suntour V, and stewing over what to do about rims. Mavic tubular is out there, but NOS is going to cost more than the bike did originally! Have a great day, Carl   Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 5:25 pm gmany Joined: 20 Aug 2009 Posts: 47 carlmorrell wrote: Chas, I am afraid I don't remember how to disassemble the bottom bracket. Any words of wisdom? I have a ring wrench, but I don't think it is exactly the correct size. Are any threads left handed? Wish me luck! Right handed. Look here for additional info from Sheldon Brown. http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/french-cranks.html#bottom http://www.sheldonbrown.com/velos.html http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/bbcups.html For the initial teardown on my Gitane I was able to use wrenches to take the BB apart. If you need the fixed cup tool tip, go directly to the 5/8 hardware. I first tried this recently with grade 8 1/2" hardware...stripped the threads right off the bolt. Got the 5/8, took care of it in short order. _________________ Garrett Miles Saint Louis, Missouri Model ID? 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