gitaneusa.com Forum Index » Vintage Gitane » Time for a refurb    View previous topic :: View next topic  Time for a refurb   Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:41 am Jenks Joined: 10 Feb 2012 Posts: 5 Location: Poughkeepsie, New York Greetings, This is my first posting. I am a semi-retired construction worker from upstate NY. I recently discovered this site and have been learning a lot about this old Gitane that i have. Please see the attached photos. I acquired this bike in 1985 in a trade for an old rifle. Honest to god, no money changed hands. It was already well used when I got it. It has been a good around town bike for me but is really getting worn down. After looking through the catalogues I think this is a 1975 Gypsy model 2034 or a Grand Sport. Here are some of the components: Piva stem, Mafac brakes, Simplex front derailleur, Shimano rear (not original), Solida crank, Simplex shifters though I believe originally they were stem mounted, you can see the cable guides. Also see the cool Brooks professional seat. I took it off years ago to try a padded seat and am glad I did because it missed a few crashes and is now still in great shape. Seat tube never had a decal. Do you think it fell off? Anyway I love this bike and want to make some upgrades and restore some glory. First of all the bottom bracket has some play in it and the crankset is worn. The chain will sometimes jump off on an uphill. Can I change to a cotterless crank? There are a few cranksets on ebay. Which ones will fit? Even in its present condition I get Compliments. Young kids like it, maybe its the color. "Cool bike Mister" was my favorite. Any advice will be greatly appreciated. Chris Jenkins Poughkeepsie, NY _________________ 1975 Gitane Gypsy 2010 Giant Escape II 1975 Gypsy   Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:07 am verktyg Joined: 14 Jan 2007 Posts: 2814 Location: SF Bay Area Greetings and welcome to the Forum. The differences between the 1975 Gypsy and Gran Sport are the wheels, derailleurs and 1/2 chrome forks. The Gypsy came with nutted small flange hubs. The Gran Sport had large flange hubs with quick realeases. As pictured in the 1975 catalog, the Gran Sport had Suntour derailleurs whereas the Gypsy came with Simplex Prestige derailleurs. Two suggestions, replace the front rim with an aluminum alloy rim like the rear one and find an alloy crankset to fit your bike. Those 2 things will make a big difference. _________________ Chas. SF Bay Area, CA USA ============== 1984 Criterium 1969 TdF 1971 TdF 1974 TdF 1984 TdF x 2 Bikes 1970 SC 1971 SC 1972 SC 1984 SC 1984 Team Pro 1985 Professional 1990s Team Replica   Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:06 am Jenks Joined: 10 Feb 2012 Posts: 5 Location: Poughkeepsie, New York Thanks Chas, I realize this is an entry level machine as my son dismissively says: its a "campus" bike. In other words meant to be cheap and then abused. I'll take your advice on the front wheel and crankset. Also think the bottom bracket has to go. One question. Do you think the Brooks saddle that was on it when i got it could have been original equipment? Jenks _________________ 1975 Gitane Gypsy 2010 Giant Escape II   Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:46 pm verktyg Joined: 14 Jan 2007 Posts: 2814 Location: SF Bay Area Jenks wrote: I'll take your advice on the front wheel and crankset. Also think the bottom bracket has to go. Jenks You will definitely need a bottom bracket. Alloy cotterless cranks fit on a tapered square spindle. The crank arms are held onto the spindle with bolts or nuts. You'll also need to get a matching set of cups to fit the spindle. SR and Sugino MAXI cranks show up regularly on eBay. You'ill need to get a matching metric (French) thread bottom bracket. SR made cranks for Motobecane and Raleigh and some of them have those names cast into the crank arms. Solida was a French company that made alloy cranks in the early 1980s but most of them probably have British threaded bottom brackets. A word of advice, don't try to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear... Think silk stockings on a rooster and don't spend too much on an alloy crank set. You can probably by a complete bike at a thrift shop or Craigslist with better quality components for less than you may spend upgrading the Gypsy! Jenks wrote: One question. Do you think the Brooks saddle that was on it when i got it could have been original equipment? Ha, ha, ha... Brooks Pro saddles sold for more than the Gypsy cost! Entry level bikes from that era came with very cheap plastic saddles also know as "ass hatchets"! _________________ Chas. SF Bay Area, CA USA ============== 1984 Criterium 1969 TdF 1971 TdF 1974 TdF 1984 TdF x 2 Bikes 1970 SC 1971 SC 1972 SC 1984 SC 1984 Team Pro 1985 Professional 1990s Team Replica Recommendations   Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:35 am verktyg Joined: 14 Jan 2007 Posts: 2814 Location: SF Bay Area I hope my suggestions were not taken wrong. Getting an old bike like your's running properly can be very expensive. If it were a bike that you've had for some time then it's a little different. Starting from scratch on a recent acquisition, you're going to need new brake cables and probably derailleur cables. Those bikes came with cheap cables that never worked smoothly. Next new brake pads. The grease in the headset, bottom bracket and hubs can be almost 40 years old and dried out. The pedals are probably metric thread. Many replacement cranks are going to have British threads so you're going to need new pedals too. If you do all the work yourself then you'll only be out the cost of parts which could be well over $100 to $150 for cranks and pedals cables and so on. A bike shop can charge you $150-$200+ with parts and labor. Hope this helps. Last edited by verktyg on Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:13 am; edited 1 time in total _________________ Chas. SF Bay Area, CA USA ============== 1984 Criterium 1969 TdF 1971 TdF 1974 TdF 1984 TdF x 2 Bikes 1970 SC 1971 SC 1972 SC 1984 SC 1984 Team Pro 1985 Professional 1990s Team Replica   Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:57 am auchencrow Joined: 09 Oct 2011 Posts: 53 Location: Detroit Jenks - I would propose that you do everything Chas mentioned but NOT replace the Solida crank because with the exception of an expensive Stronglight, few cotterless cranks will "look" the part, and your existing crank will outlast 50 of them if you just lube it up. Besides, replacing a crank runs a very distant second versus the benefit you'll gain from just replacing steel wheels with alloys. Your money is really better spent on a really nice set of wheels. If you decide to have a bike shop do the work for you, make sure you vet them first: Many local shops today are not equipped to do the work and often their young mechanics are completely inexperienced when it comes to working on old French bikes. Anyway, buying your own tools won't cost you much more than what you would pay the bike shop, and, you'll be able to maintain your bike yourself in the future. The most expensive item will likely be the cotter press (about $50 from Bikesmith Design). Spend some time boning up on servicing French bikes on sheldonbrown.com. I think you may find doing your own work greatly satisfying, as so many of us do. - And one more ting: I like your bike. It may not be a Super Corsa, but so what? It's your bike. Enjoy it! _________________ Auchen   Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:11 am verktyg Joined: 14 Jan 2007 Posts: 2814 Location: SF Bay Area auchencrow wrote: Many local shops today are not equipped to do the work and often their young mechanics are completely inexperienced when it comes to working on old French bikes. If you walk into a shop and say French or they see a French bike and their eyes glaze over and roll back into their heads... Slowly back out the door the same way you came in and RUN AWAY! RUN AWAY! Good suggestions auchencrow. _________________ Chas. SF Bay Area, CA USA ============== 1984 Criterium 1969 TdF 1971 TdF 1974 TdF 1984 TdF x 2 Bikes 1970 SC 1971 SC 1972 SC 1984 SC 1984 Team Pro 1985 Professional 1990s Team Replica   Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:08 pm scozim Joined: 26 Sep 2008 Posts: 629 Location: Ellensburg, WA auchencrow wrote: Anyway, buying your own tools won't cost you much more than what you would pay the bike shop, and, you'll be able to maintain your bike yourself in the future. The most expensive item will likely be the cotter press (about $50 from Bikesmith Design). Spend some time boning up on servicing French bikes on sheldonbrown.com. I think you may find doing your own work greatly satisfying, as so many of us do. Agreed. 3 yrs ago you wouldn't have seen me rebuilding a bike. I bought my own tools, researched and learned by some trial and error but it's completely worth it. I built up a late 60's gas pipe Gitane last winter using the above mentioned Bikesmith design cotter press - that was a good investment - and keeping the original steel crankset. I couldn't pass up how nice it looked once I polished it up and the 52-36 gearing was great. The bike may have been heavy but I'd have used it as a daily rider in an instant. http://www.gitaneusa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1787 Besides, I haven't seen many yellow Gitanes - that bike of yours could look really cool. _________________ 1984 Gitane Sprint 1984 Gitane Tour de France mid-1970's Gitane Olympic Plus many more http://eburgcycling.blogspot.com   Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:49 am Jenks Joined: 10 Feb 2012 Posts: 5 Location: Poughkeepsie, New York Gentlemen, Thanks for your posts . I admit Verk that your words stung just a bit but I got the jist i.e. dont overspend. Also, you guys have got me pegged. I am a total rookie at this, no tools, no experience. Here is what i did this past week: Went on line and bought a Parks workbench stand. $85 on Amazon. Ordered a used 2004 Chris Sidwells R&M manual. Those items have not arrived yet but I decided to lurch forward and removed the crankset. I had no problem getting the cotters out. Bottom bracket was a little harder but it came out. There was absolutely NO grease on the bracket parts, only dust. Probably the first time in 37 years its been out. I was a little shocked that the ball bearings are set in these plastic rings. Seemed really cheap and inadequate. I greased the bracket, put it back in but it just would not spin freely so i made the decision to buy a new bracket and crankset (sorry Crow but it is really beat up and the sprockets are deformed). Searched some on ebay but decided to hit the bike shops. At the first shop the owner looked like he bit a lemon when i described what i was doing. Second shop was more a bicycle boutique with $5000 cervelos on the floor but at least they offered to price a bracket and crank. Long story short, i ordered a Velo bracket $44 and the least expensive crankset by Shimano $39. Also bought 2 alum alloy wheels for $40 each. Crankset is a 54/39 tooth so I may regret it later. The money is adding up but I didnt spend anything on this bike for 25 years! I am on my way!!!! Many decisions still to make: tool set? what to do with the paint? stem shifters? You guys are great. Peace _________________ 1975 Gitane Gypsy 2010 Giant Escape II   Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:36 pm auchencrow Joined: 09 Oct 2011 Posts: 53 Location: Detroit Jenks wrote: ..... I am on my way!!!! Many decisions still to make: tool set? what to do with the paint? stem shifters? You guys are great. Peace Kudos to you Jenks, for going for it! The best bet in tools is to buy just the tools you need when you need them. You will need a crank puller, some bb tools, and a FW remover. Cone wrenches are essential but if you purchased new built up wheels you should not need them immediately. You also have purchased already that most essential item - a work stand! I would refer you to the Park Tool REPAIR HELP for infor on the specific tools you'll need. (-Though can save a few bucks on a cable cutter by buying the small BOLT cutter at Lowes.) If you have a dremel or a cut-off wheel, it works great for housing as well. (Just be careful you don't cut your fingers!) Also it is best NOT to reuse bearings. Ditch the caged bearings and install new loose ones with fresh grease. Niagara Cycle sells them pretty cheap, along with many other things you may need. I would suggest that you stay with the DT shifters but if you can't get used to them, install BAR END shifters instead. The friction type Suntour Barcons are available on eBay but the prices are escalating. Paint-wise, do as LITTLE as possible. I little touch-up here and there is OK but remember that NO touch-up is better than bad touch up. Also original paint is original once - the wear an tear of normal usage is endearing if anythng, and generally any repaint will only rob originality and value. _________________ Auchen Tools etc.   Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:09 am verktyg Joined: 14 Jan 2007 Posts: 2814 Location: SF Bay Area Jenks wrote: Many decisions still to make: tool set? what to do with the paint? stem shifters? Tools, see below... Don't worry about the paint unless it's rusting a lot or you hate the color. You can do a lot to clean it up including some auto polish. Cleaned up with shinny parts the bike will look a lot better and some of the worts will disappear into the background. Think of the 10 foot test! How does the bike look from 10 feet away? Very few people get closer than 10 feet to you and your bike. See auchencrow's comments below on paint. Stem shifters have got to go because they don't work very well. Switch to bar end or down tube shifters. See auchencrow's comments below on shifters. Jenks wrote: You guys are great. Me too? auchencrow wrote: I would refer you to the Park Tool REPAIR HELP for infor on the specific tools you'll need. (-Though can save a few bucks on a cable cutter by buying the small BOLT cutter at Lowes.) If you have a dremel or a cut-off wheel, it works great for housing as well. (Just be careful you don't cut your fingers!) Many well made combo wire crimper-strippers-cutters have holes around the axle for cutting off small screws. You could use the smallest hole for cutting off bike cables flush. Check out these Irwin crimpers. Click on the pliers and you'll get you an enlarged view. http://tinyurl.com/7dja92w auchencrow wrote: Also it is best NOT to reuse bearings. Ditch the caged bearings and install new loose ones with fresh grease. Niagara Cycle sells them pretty cheap, along with many other things you may need. This eBay seller carries a lot of Grade 25 Chrome Steel Ball Bearings at a decent price. I buy them in packs of 100. They don't go bad on the shelf. http://tinyurl.com/7c9mb7o auchencrow wrote: I would suggest that you stay with the DT shifters but if you can't get used to them, install BAR END shifters instead. The friction type Suntour Barcons are available on eBay but the prices are escalating. auchencrow wrote: Paint-wise, do as LITTLE as possible. I little touch-up here and there is OK but remember that NO touch-up is better than bad touch up. Also original paint is original once - the wear an tear of normal usage is endearing if anythng, and generally any repaint will only rob originality and value. (I wrote comments on paint and stem shifters before reading auchencrow's post) Newer brake cable housing comes with an internal Teflon liner that makes it work very smoothly. Dérailleur cable housing is slightly smaller. Modern derailleur cable housing is very stiff and designed for use with index shifters. It doesn't work that well with older derailleurs. Sometimes you can used brake cable housing as long as the ends fit into the derailleur cable entrances. If you need some smaller cable housing most older bike shops have piles of it sitting around. Check out this Sheldon Brown (RIP) article on bottom brackets. http://sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/bbcups.html Looks like you are well on your way. _________________ Chas. SF Bay Area, CA USA ============== 1984 Criterium 1969 TdF 1971 TdF 1974 TdF 1984 TdF x 2 Bikes 1970 SC 1971 SC 1972 SC 1984 SC 1984 Team Pro 1985 Professional 1990s Team Replica   Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:57 am Jenks Joined: 10 Feb 2012 Posts: 5 Location: Poughkeepsie, New York Thanks for all the advice. The Sheldon Brown site is loaded. About stem shifters: In the 25 years ive had the bike it has always had downtube shifters and the reason I was thinking about stem shifters is because they were original equip on the Gypsy according to the catalogue. And the brazed-on cable guides are there on the upper downtube. But if you guys say the stem shifters are problematic i may reconsider (that might explain why vintage stem shifters are pretty common on ebay.) The catalogue also shows brake levers with extensions as original equip. Thought they may be cool if I can find some very cheap. You guys are right about the paint. This is not the bike to go crazy on a paint job and that particular yellow could not be duplicated. It reminds be of the yellow in the Maillot Jaune Workbench stand just arrived. Gonna go mount it. later jenks _________________ 1975 Gitane Gypsy 2010 Giant Escape II   Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:08 pm verktyg Joined: 14 Jan 2007 Posts: 2814 Location: SF Bay Area Jenks wrote: About stem shifters: In the 25 years ive had the bike it has always had downtube shifters and the reason I was thinking about stem shifters is because they were original equip on the Gypsy according to the catalogue. And the brazed-on cable guides are there on the upper downtube. But if you guys say the stem shifters are problematic i may reconsider (that might explain why vintage stem shifters are pretty common on ebay.) Catalogs were just a reference point. Bikes from that era and most bikes in general came with whatever the manufacturer had on the shelf. The shorter and least amount of bends in the derailleur cables the better the derailleurs shift. The Simplex Delrin plastic shift levers broke regularly when they were new - very poor design. After 35-40 years the plastic has deteriorated even if new and kept in the dark. Stem shifters were an attempt not to look geeky! The other thing, if you came to a quick stop and slid off the saddle, junior and the boys might not appreciate the stem shifters! Jenks wrote: The catalogue also shows brake levers with extensions as original equip. Thought they may be cool if I can find some very cheap. The safety part of safety extension levers was just a euphemism! Most shops called them "SUICIDE LEVERS"! Here's the rest of the story... The bike boom fad of the early 70s was like many other fads... Not everything was well thought out! Back then derailleur bikes were called "10 Speed Racing Bikes" (even if they were department store specials). A big part of the "racing bike" image were the dropped handle bars. The purpose for dropped bars was to allow the rider to get down with their hands on the drops to reduce wind resistance. Also the bends gave a rider a wide range of places to move their hands so as to prevent numbness and fatigue. Most cyclists would have been better served with flat bars like those that a lot of bikes in the 80s came with. Inexperienced people riding with their hands on the bar tops had problems switching to the brake levers to slow down or stop, thus the suicide levers were developed. Suicide levers were a poorly thought out, poorly designed and poorly constructed attempt to allow cyclists to ride in a more upright position by keeping their hands on the tops of the bars between the stem and first bend (flat bars would have been better for those folks). Suicide levers worked if they were kept properly adjusted which meant the brake blocks had to be close to the rims. The wheels had to be true. Any blip in the rims (very common in steel rims) or out of true wheel would cause the pads to grab. Very few cyclists were even aware of those issues and rode off in bliss. In addition, the nylon bushing inside of the Weinmann and DiaCompe levers would compress and wear out fast from the increased pressure of the suicide levers. This would cause the levers to get sloppy and the lip part of the suicide levers that move the regular brake levers would pop out and you had no brakes at all. There were other issues too. Those levers disappeared off of new bikes by the time CPSC (the US Consumer Safety Protection Commission) rules got implemented in the late 70s. Today suicide levers like those in the 70s would have made a bunch of lawyers rich(er)! Now you know the rest of the story! _________________ Chas. SF Bay Area, CA USA ============== 1984 Criterium 1969 TdF 1971 TdF 1974 TdF 1984 TdF x 2 Bikes 1970 SC 1971 SC 1972 SC 1984 SC 1984 Team Pro 1985 Professional 1990s Team Replica Wider audience   Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:35 pm verktyg Joined: 14 Jan 2007 Posts: 2814 Location: SF Bay Area Jenks, Just so you know, a lot of my comments and posts are intended to address a wider audience than just the members of this Forum. You can find this place easily from Google and other search engines. When I make negative comments it usually means that I've "been there - done that" and I'm trying to save someone some time and money because I've probably made those same mistakes a least once myself. Good luck on your project. Chas. _________________ Chas. SF Bay Area, CA USA ============== 1984 Criterium 1969 TdF 1971 TdF 1974 TdF 1984 TdF x 2 Bikes 1970 SC 1971 SC 1972 SC 1984 SC 1984 Team Pro 1985 Professional 1990s Team Replica   Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:27 pm carlmorrell Joined: 11 Aug 2011 Posts: 13 That bottom bracket looks just like the one I had in my Interclub I restored last fall. Including the plastic bearing cages. The right side cup was damaged, so I ordered what I thought looked like the correct cups. (ebay) They were slightly off, by maybe 4 mm. Then a found a spindle that looked close (ebay). I ordered it, and it was off by about 4 mm. So with one offset positive, and the other negative, I was able to swap them out and got a perfect setup. YMMV. 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