gitaneusa.com Forum Index » Vintage Gitane » Tips/Help Touching up a TdF Goto page 1, 2  Next    View previous topic :: View next topic  Tips/Help Touching up a TdF   Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:44 pm dr octagon Joined: 06 Mar 2012 Posts: 13 Location: Savannah, GA I've been in the market for a light and not insanely expensive vintage road bike for some time and when this 1973 (?) Tour de France came through my LBS I jumped on it for $175. It's in respectable condition with mainly original parts (I added a new saddle, kickstand, reflectors from the same era; the LBS added non-original dropbars and levers i think..). It has campy derailleur and hubs. This is my first road bike (been kicking around a hybrid for the past 6 months) so I am new to the scene and lingo. Many of the original and classic TdF stickers are on the other side that I didnt photograph (doh) and appear intact though some are beginning to peel. Cutting to the chase, the reason I am posting is because I am trying to restore this bike somewhat. I was hoping to get some advice on how to match the paint so I can cover up the exposed metal where the paint is peeling in order to prevent rust (see pics)! I've read a lot of TdF rebuild threads and searched images on the webz but I haven't run across a TdF that is exactly my color. I spent a few hours today going to a few paint shops but they weren't much help. There is a shop I am going to tomorrow that mixes oil based paints and have a matching machine but they did not sound very confident (If only these French used Pantone colors, eh?). Help would be amazing! Also, does anyone have any advice on how to repaint over these areas (ie sand, prime a bit/ or just paint over it after de rusting). Also, how do I get the chrome nice and shiny? Do I use typical chrome polish? I will be making a run to the hardware store tomorrow to buy some de-ruster and some brass wool but I wanted to get a bead on what other supplies I would need to spruce this baby up a bit. Any advice, thoughts, or general opinions on my bike (did I get a decent deal?) would be appreciated. Thanks for reading my rambling post and sorry for the poor quality pics (iPhone). I will try to get some more tomorrow with a digital in natural light. -Haresh from Charleston, SC. ignore the brakes that will brake into the tire @.@. Was adjusting my seat height and messed up the calibration. Didn't realize when I was taking pics. Last edited by dr octagon on Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:36 am; edited 1 time in total _________________ All is fair in love and bicycles.   Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:45 am scozim Joined: 26 Sep 2008 Posts: 629 Location: Ellensburg, WA Nice looking bike. Do you have some photos of the components - i.e. other side of the bike. _________________ 1984 Gitane Sprint 1984 Gitane Tour de France mid-1970's Gitane Olympic Plus many more http://eburgcycling.blogspot.com   Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:03 am headset Joined: 03 Aug 2011 Posts: 5 Hello Haresh, Nice looking TdF. I think it’s a fairly rare color. I'm currently cleaning up a TdF frame set that has similar rust areas as yours. I've had good results with rapping rags soaked in Evaporust around the problem areas and covering them tightly with saran wrap. I usually leave this on overnight and rinse in the morning. No scrubbing necessary (and no damage to the good paint). Nail polish is good for touch ups, and comes in a variety of metallics. Just a little awkward when you stand at the Walgreens nail counter for twenty minutes trying to find a good match! Please look at your front derailleur cable routing. Something isn’t right. The cable shouldn’t rap around the seat tube like that. Over time it might begin to cut into the seat tube. Good luck with it. Mike   Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:47 am dr octagon Joined: 06 Mar 2012 Posts: 13 Location: Savannah, GA Thanks for the responses. I just got my hands on a camera so I'll post some pics soon. Any ideas on how to fix that cable rubbing against the post? I think maybe some cable housing would do the trick but I feel like that's not how it came stock. Could someone with a TdF give me some advice on how to route it? I've messed with it before but couldn't come up with a soln.. I'll be stopping by walgreens today. Maybe I'll drag my GF along so I have an alibi. Also, i've seen evaporust recommended on a few bike forums. I'll be sure to get that from Home Depot. Last edited by dr octagon on Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:50 am; edited 1 time in total _________________ All is fair in love and bicycles.   Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:44 am dr octagon Joined: 06 Mar 2012 Posts: 13 Location: Savannah, GA Added some pics of the components and decals from the flip side of the bike. Also, included some images of the derailleur cable that is set up to rub against the frame. Hoping an original TdF owner can provide some insight. My LBS got this bike from some guy who wanted help setting it up as a fixie. They disassembled it for him but he ended up buying another bike and left this baby with them so they reassembled it and sold it to me. _________________ All is fair in love and bicycles.   Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:56 am sandranian Site Admin Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 2701 Location: Southern California Nice bike. Take that kick stand off of it...and the U lock...and it will look even better. _________________ Stephan Andranian Costa Mesa, CA www.gitaneusa.com   Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:25 pm Kinst VonSterga Joined: 26 May 2008 Posts: 153 Location: Hillsboro, Oregon USA headset wrote: Hello Haresh, Nail polish is good for touch ups, and comes in a variety of metallics. Just a little awkward when you stand at the Walgreens nail counter for twenty minutes trying to find a good match! My recommendation would be to take your frame (or fork) to the nearest NAPA or car parts store that mixes paint. You can riffle through their paint chips until you find a match to your paint (patina, sun-bleach condition and all). If you can, compare the paint-chip to your fork or frame color under normal sunlight as some of the incandescent or florescent lighting can screw with the actual hue/color. Have them mix the smallest batch and pin-drop/fill in the chips for almost a perfect match within inches of viewing. I add a little paint hardener to the small dab of paint-mix put used to draw from. Go the other route and the perfect match may be within feet of viewing. You're pick in the end on which approach to use. Thnx ps. For example, for one of my older white gitanes, there are hundreds of different hues and I found the perfect one color/code ... I can't even tell the paint chip was treated now within inches of viewing (the benefit of pin-drop fill versus paint-brush application or masked paint-spray). pss. Nice bicycle!!! psss. Even nicer, if you lose the kickstand and krypto lock (which probably weights as much as the bike itself).   Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:49 pm dr octagon Joined: 06 Mar 2012 Posts: 13 Location: Savannah, GA Kinst VonSterga wrote: Have them mix the smallest batch and pin-drop/fill in the chips for almost a perfect match within inches of viewing. I add a little paint hardener to the small dab of paint-mix put used to draw from. Go the other route and the perfect match may be within feet of viewing. You're pick in the end on which approach to use. Thanks for this advice! Exactly what I was looking for. I'll probably be going with the pin-drop method and letting the paint filling out the missing flakes. any recommendations on how to deal with areas that are scratched up? The paint will probably not fill out the scratches too well. Should I just paint over these areas with the above paint from NAPA? I'm going to go see what they can do for me tomorrow. Thanks again! Agree on the U-lock weighing a ton. Only thing is that Charleston has a TON of bike theft and occasionally I need to lock up while I run in places to grab something..Maybe I'll just carry it when I need it.. Any advice on how to remove light rust and getting the chrome to shine a bit more? Will brass wool plus some WD40 do the trick? Thanks for all the help you guys. Definitely could not get help like this anywhere else on the web! _________________ All is fair in love and bicycles.   Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:21 pm sandranian Site Admin Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 2701 Location: Southern California Yes...brass wool and wd40 will do the trick. _________________ Stephan Andranian Costa Mesa, CA www.gitaneusa.com   Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:50 pm Kinst VonSterga Joined: 26 May 2008 Posts: 153 Location: Hillsboro, Oregon USA dr octagon wrote: any recommendations on how to deal with areas that are scratched up? The paint will probably not fill out the scratches too well. Should I just paint over these areas with the above paint from NAPA? I'm going to go see what they can do for me tomorrow. For chips, the pin-drop method is great BUT ONE MUST BE PATIENT AND METHODICAL, if your aim is to create a high-quality and near-seamless paint patch. Wear the strongest reading glasses you can buy and perform this under very bright light, as you'll need it. The temptation is to rush the job and that is where you'll kick yourself. Practice on something other than your bicycle at first, otherwise you'll be using paint remover on the real McCoy. No a good way to undo a virgin's learning curve, making the damaged area worse. If impatience kicks in (and it can be a powerful motivator), then simply put down your dropper and reconvene in 5 minutes. Be mindful of the paint hardener, as that will limit how slow you can go Similar to your bike, I had some frames where I didn't want to re-spray the entire bicycle just because of tire rub, where it took off big swatches of paint on the inside of the chain-stay (or any other tubing damaged by abrasion). When it’s a larger area and somewhere not in plain view like this, definitely mask off the good paint (give it 5mm-1cm (max) buffer around the torn up area) and lightly sand down the damaged area and clean it with acetone or perhaps a more friendly cleaner that leaves no residue. Work in a room that isn't a floating dust chamber, as these little painting projects seem to be great magnets for dust and no-see-ums. I have a hobby air-paint gun (badger) that I've used to apply a base-white primer. Then patiently airbrush the color onto the primer in fine layers until it starts to match the original paint of your bicycle. This approach is tricky and can take some time to get it right, as the candy-lacquer paint will let parts of the white primer to show through by design. Be sure to use paint-hardener (in the right proportions, or your paint won't withstand any abrasion). Feathering your air-brush toward the masked area and trying to have minimal-to-no paint reaching the taped area should be the goal. Layer after layer, and again, be mindful of your paints dry times. Rushing it will screw up the attempt as it’s so easy to get blotting or a drip going. Now for the high visible areas, follow the same steps, but be sure you've mastered the technique before tackling something like a top-tube, because if you goof up, you'll be staring at your mistake on every bike ride. When you're all done, take off the tape, lightly wet-sand with 2000 or 2500 sandpaper (Napa should have this too), 1500 or below will start more paint off than I find acceptable. Blend the over-spray with the original paint edging, but try to sand as little as possible the actual painted area. When done, let it dry for a day, lightly sand, clean and then lightly clear-coat the area (same feathering effect, but with no taping/masking and then let it dry and then wet sand oh-so lightly to match the weathered paint/patina of your bicycle). You can see the main theme so far, patience. The other difficult thing is being sure you keep your air-gun "clean" after each spraying session, as the hardener will ruin your gun/parts if you don't. They have bottled air fed air-guns that are cheaper, so that may be a better solution if you don't have an electric air-pump fed device. ... and trying to find a bicycle painter who will do this for you is extremely difficult. From experience, they would rather strip your frame down and re-spray, as it would take less time than the find & patch approach above. Believe me, I tried talking some into patching things for me and I get the, tried it before but no thank you. Even if you screw up, it'll be far less noticeable than the slap-stick paint-a-dab approach, but for folks like me, the reward is worth it in the end. Did I say that patience will be your biggest ally in creating a perfect patch?   Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:07 pm dr octagon Joined: 06 Mar 2012 Posts: 13 Location: Savannah, GA Kinst VonSterga wrote: Did I say that patience will be your biggest ally in creating a perfect patch? I'm already breaking a sweat thinking about it! I plan to work on this for a few days so I'll work slowly and methodically. I know an airbrush would be ideal but I'm not sure how I think about spending $50+ on something I'll use only once. Could this be done (not as efficiently, of course) with a hand brush set if I take my time? Also, what was your ratio of hardener to paint?! This is all assuming they can match the paint. The color may not be a problem but getting that metallic hue just right may be a problem. Not sure how good they are at NAPA, but I guess we'll find out tomorrow! Thanks for the invaluable help Kinst VonSterga. _________________ All is fair in love and bicycles.   Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:56 pm Kinst VonSterga Joined: 26 May 2008 Posts: 153 Location: Hillsboro, Oregon USA dr octagon wrote: I know an airbrush would be ideal but I'm not sure how I think about spending $50+ on something I'll use only once. Could this be done (not as efficiently, of course) with a hand brush set if I take my time? Also, what was your ratio of hardener to paint?! This is all assuming they can match the paint. The color may not be a problem but getting that metallic hue just right may be a problem. Not sure how good they are at NAPA, but I guess we'll find out tomorrow! Thanks for the invaluable help Kinst VonSterga. The hardener I have is a 1 pt H to 6 pts paint, though they differ based on the brand so its best to follow the directions on whatever you buy. They have airisol cans of air to feed low-priced airgun heads as a cheaper option ... but if you go with painting by hand, then the above steps really don't apply. Totally up to you on what to do, and just clear coating over clean/de-rusted bare spots is also an option too. Some of the bicycles charm is showing off its battle scars, but at least clear-coat the injuries against any environmental infections. Ps. Try the paintchip search and dont' be bashful to ask them if they have boxes of them somewhere else. Paint vendors hand them out like candy. deep breath   Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:27 am Frenchbuilt Joined: 18 Apr 2007 Posts: 443 I use Chas's 10 foot method and try to get everything looking OK from a distance but up close you see the "slight" repair area. Once done you will soon forget all of the areas you touched up and be happy with the general shine of all of those nice aluminum parts! If you are not use to doing spray paint, then it's a bit tricky and unless you use a catalyzed paint "hardener" big painted areas are a bit fragile and less good then the original paint. Try to match the original primer/filler color and build up several layers with small brush. Light sand with 600 wet and brush on what you have found to be close in color. Clearish metallics are difficult though with brush. Once dry, I usually brush or spray on some clear coat (check it does not attack existing paint) Dry for a long time, polish and wax and forget. You can go to super fine sand paper but normal primer easily covers 400 paper sanding marks and paint base coat will cover 600 easily. Sometimes we do cars in 800 wet but usually only 600 paper. Showcars maybe we have done 1200 sometimes. By the way, I don't think that your derailleur will work well as mounted and with such a large cog on the freewheel. A simplex will and mount in the original hole. These wonderful paints or rather their nasty clear-coats harden forever in your lungs. Paint manufacturers don't care about you. Painters have a hard life! dan deep breath   Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:33 am Frenchbuilt Joined: 18 Apr 2007 Posts: 443 I use Chas's 10 foot method and try to get everything looking OK from a distance but up close you see the "slight" repair area. Once done you will soon forget all of the areas you touched up and be happy with the general shine of all of those nice aluminum parts! If you are not use to doing spray paint, then it's a bit tricky and unless you use a catalyzed paint "hardener" big painted areas are a bit fragile and less good then the original paint. Try to match the original primer/filler color and build up several layers with small brush. Light sand with 600 wet and brush on what you have found to be close in color. Clearish metallics are difficult though with brush. Once dry, I usually brush or spray on some clear coat (check it does not attack existing paint) Dry for a long time, polish and wax and forget. You can go to super fine sand paper but normal primer easily covers 400 paper sanding marks and paint base coat will cover 600 easily. Sometimes we do cars in 800 wet but usually only 600 paper. Showcars maybe we have done 1200 sometimes. By the way, I don't think that your derailleur will work well as mounted and with such a large cog on the freewheel. A simplex will and mount in the original hole. These wonderful paints or rather their nasty clear-coats harden forever in your lungs. Paint manufacturers don't care about you. Painters have a hard life! dan   Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:06 am dr octagon Joined: 06 Mar 2012 Posts: 13 Location: Savannah, GA Thought I would give you guys an update and leave some advice for future restorers. So I ended up going to NAPA and I found a good color match. The advised me to go to a sherwin williams that mixes auto paint and can put it into a spray can (only 1/6 of my local sherwin williams does auto paint FYI, so be sure you call ahead to check). Long story short the paint + supplies would end up costing me 110ish total including supplies since the paint was premium stuff (a little out of my bicycle budget right now). The paint was so so close though I almost considered paying it but I figured I would rather save my money now and maybe do a total restore in a year or so with a complete repaint and decal replacing. So I had them mix me up the closest similiar stock color they could find in the smallest amt (~30$ + 20ish for sandpaper, tape, clear coat etc). I applied some last night and another coat this morning. It's not perfect but no one will notice a few feet away. A few inches and the shade difference will be noticeable. Figured it was worth the $50 bucks it costed me especially since the damage is minimal, and hey, who looks under the bottom tube anyways? Will probably add another coat and then sand to help the color blend and then spray clear coat to keep that rust away. Spent a great deal of time and elbow grease cleaning all the components and chrome so everything will at least be nice and shiny. I cannot wait to reassemble and ride this weekend. Thanks for the tips you guys provided. Will definitely save this for my future total restoration. _________________ All is fair in love and bicycles. 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