gitaneusa.com Forum Index » Vintage Gitane » 1987 Team Pro Oddities Goto page 1, 2  Next    View previous topic :: View next topic  1987 Team Pro Oddities   Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:41 pm sandranian Site Admin Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 2701 Location: Southern California I received a 1987 Team Pro frameset yesterday. It appears to be in great shape, but just in case, I had the threading checked out today (it was all fine), and will have the alignment checked this week. In examining the frameset, it was interesting in how it differed from the 1987 Gitane that I already own...one which I suspect is a "Inter" (Interclub), but cannot be sure, as it came from the factory with decals indicating it is 531 Professional, not 531c tubing. Most probably an error in decaling. Anyways, the fork blades on the Inter use Vitus dropouts and are nicely finished. However, the blades on the Team Pro use campagnolo dropouts and only the outside has been completely finished and filed. Furthermore, one of them is more nicely done/finished than the other! Bizarre, in their "top of the line" model. Here is a picture to illustrate: So anyone have any idea as to the reason? Was this common on Reynolds forks, or is this purely a Gitane thing...or is this only this bike? Any insight would be appreciated. Also, notice on this seat lug how poorly the lug points are finished. If you look closely, you can see a lip, ledge or gap between the lug point and the top tube. Pierre must have had a few too many at lunch that day, eh? This is something you would almost assuredly never find on the top end Colnago or Masi, would it? Another cool feature on this model is the internally routed rear brake cable. I took a close up of the front boss, and the number tab, just so you can see how close together these two things are. Last picture for now...the Reynolds 531 P sticker in French... I will post pictures when the bike is assembled and ready to roll. _________________ Stephan Andranian Costa Mesa, CA www.gitaneusa.com   Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:05 am lofter Joined: 05 Mar 2006 Posts: 1162 hmmmm definately different Partially built...   Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:43 am sandranian Site Admin Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 2701 Location: Southern California Put most of it together last night. Here it is, sans chain.... _________________ Stephan Andranian Costa Mesa, CA www.gitaneusa.com   Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:46 am verktyg Joined: 14 Jan 2007 Posts: 2814 Location: SF Bay Area Nice.... REALLY nice.... Glad you finally got the frame. I was bidding on it too then I backed off when I saw you REALLY wanted it. I'm glad I didn't have to endure what you went through to get the frame. Enjoy. BTW, gaps around the lugs and dropouts are quite common. It's hard to see them when you're brazing because they get filled in with flux. They show up afterwards when the frame is sandblasted or acid dipped to clean off the excess flux. Bondo or some other kind of filler is usually used on top end bikes to fill the gaps. Chas.   Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:14 am sandranian Site Admin Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 2701 Location: Southern California Thanks...and yes, it was a hassle to get this frameset. I had to work at it.... Forgot to add this cool tidbit: I purchased all of the parts for this bike, except the wheels and pedals, from a former Gitane dealer in Texas. The C-Record gruppo here came off of his wife's 1987 Team Pro. I think that is pretty neat: Off of one, onto another! Regarding the gaps, I have seen that on framesets before, but wonder more if the high-end italian bikes weren't made just a bit better, with more attention to detail. Considering this was the best available from Gitane in 1987, just odd to see such a difference 5" apart on the fork. Also, any idea about the non-filed inner part of the fork blade, where it meets the dropout? I have never seen that before, and wondered if it was "normal". _________________ Stephan Andranian Costa Mesa, CA www.gitaneusa.com   Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:36 am lofter Joined: 05 Mar 2006 Posts: 1162 nice sandman, hows it feel to have that bike ?u dog cobalto brakes i see.i have a pair , but there missing the gems. congrats. u were busy last night huh?   Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:26 pm sandranian Site Admin Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 2701 Location: Southern California Yep. Although it went together very fast. The first thing I did was take it to my friend at a bike shop and had him run all the threads through. That way, there aren't any problems with the BB or headset, and assembly is much less frustrating. Second, everything was switched from my other bicycle - and the frames are identical in size and almost identical in manufacture, so the cables, housing, etc. didn't need to be cut or trimmed. It really went fast. I do need a new chain, and while I cleaned most of the stuff, I ignored the wheels (for now), because wheels are no fun to clean! The jewels in the brakes are the best, and it is extremely hard, if not impossible, to find replicas. I have heard of people sticking other stuff in their stead, but nothing beats an original...as we all know! _________________ Stephan Andranian Costa Mesa, CA www.gitaneusa.com   Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:11 pm verktyg Joined: 14 Jan 2007 Posts: 2814 Location: SF Bay Area sandranian wrote: Regarding the gaps, I have seen that on framesets before, but wonder more if the high-end italian bikes weren't made just a bit better, with more attention to detail. Considering this was the best available from Gitane in 1987, just odd to see such a difference 5" apart on the fork. Also, any idea about the non-filed inner part of the fork blade, where it meets the dropout? I have never seen that before, and wondered if it was "normal". I stop by a local frame builder's shop every few weeks. He does a lot of repairs and restorations. A few weeks ago he had a Gios Torino frame that he had just stripped the paint off of. There were spots of Bondo all over the frame under the paint. He showed me a down tube from a famous name Italian bike from the 1970s. The tube was supposed to be Columbus but it had a large seam down the middle on the inside of the tube. It was cheap pipe. I used to do post mortems on crashed frames that came into our shop. I cut apart a nice old 1960s vintage Cinelli frame that was totaled. The mitering of the tubes was so bad the there was at least a 1/4" gap inside the lugs between the head tube, seat tube and down tube. New tubes have lots of scratches and dings that need to be filled in. Paint covers a multitude of sins. The Gitane frames that I autopsied were all pretty well built on the inside even though the lug work left a lot to be desired. I wouldn't worry about the cosmetics. I don't know what to say about the fork ends. There's probably at least a 1/2" of dropout up in the tubes that are being held in place with brazing material. Chas.   Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:58 am sandranian Site Admin Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 2701 Location: Southern California Chas...it is great having you here on the forum, as you take the time to answer some of my questions which may be scoffed at on the CR email ring! Gitane is infamous for their less-than-perfect finishes. However, I have always been a believer in the quality of the build and the quality of the ride. They just seemed to cheap out as soon as the bike was handed over by the welders! Your story regarding the cheap pipe used in a Cinelli is hilarious, and Gitane's lack of finishing actually works for the owner as far as that is concerned, as you can clearly see the "Reynolds" stamp in the tubing on my Gitanes - through the thin paint. Also, the bocama stampt is clearly visible on some of the lugs, along with the angle stamps, which weren't filed out. On my new Team Pro, the angle stamps are not visible, and neither are any lug identifiers - so I guess the "lug finisher" wasn't on strike the day my Team Pro was built. With regards to the fork blade ends, again...I don't have any questions about the quality of the welds, but rather the finish work. _________________ Stephan Andranian Costa Mesa, CA www.gitaneusa.com   Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:42 pm verktyg Joined: 14 Jan 2007 Posts: 2814 Location: SF Bay Area Thanks, The 20" long piece of seamed red down tube had a Pog......... decal on it. The Cinelli was just held together by the lugs. The tubes never touched each other. The paint and lugwork on my 1984? Gitane Super Corsa is as good as my early 80s Colnago Super. The lugs on your Pro are probably short point Prugnat lugs rather than Bocama lugs. Here's a picture of long point Prugnat lugs on my touring bike: These are Bocama long point lugs on my MTB: Here's the short point lugs on my SC: I have 7 retro French bikes: a Gitane SC, 2 Andre Bertins, 3 Motobecanes and a Peugeot Chorus 753. They have an edge up in ride and handling quality over my Brit and Italian bikes. Chas.   Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:02 am sandranian Site Admin Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 2701 Location: Southern California Alright...here is a puzzler: I put together the Team Pro, and installed a 6-7-8 speed SRAM chain (SRAM being the closest thing to Sedis Silver that can be found right now). The problem: There was no room for the chain on the 7 speed Maillard freewheel. Now perhaps I don't have the "super plus compact" seven speed Maillard, but I could have sworn I had the right one. And besides, it worked on the C-Record hub on the last Gitane frame I had...which used Vitus dropouts. The problem is that the chain, when in the smallest gear, actuallly hits the dropout and therefore doesn't go. I fixed the problem by installing a Regina 6 speed freewheel...otherwise I would have had to block a gear, which I am loathe to do. This is just bery odd...that there isn't enough room for the Maillard 7 speed.... Any thoughts? _________________ Stephan Andranian Costa Mesa, CA www.gitaneusa.com malliard   Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:35 pm Paul Wiseman Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 584 Location: Brisbane, Australia Check the axle length. Is it a 120, or 126mm axle? If it is 126, check that the spacers haven't beed fiddled around. Probably not likely, but....... Re: sandman's comments about Chas. I would like to second that. Thank you for sharing your vast knowledge and experience. It is becoming a very rare comodity. (pity you can't bottle & sell it, huh? ) And I totally agree with you that the Italian "masters" weren't as good as the mythology that is wrapped around them today. Masters of marketing their product perhaps. _________________ Wisey Brisbane, Australia 1974 Paris - Nice 1985 Defi 1985 Victoire 1985 Victoire (yes, another one!) 1985 Professionnel   Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 2:15 am Gtane Joined: 14 Sep 2007 Posts: 681 Location: UK The axle length is a good point. My 1988 has a rear axle length of 130mm although this does not necessarily mean the 1987 will be the same. Worth checking that the stays are not being squeezed together when tightening the quick release. There should be no movement in the stays when tightening a QR if you have the correct axle length. Cracking bike by the way. Amazing machines here on this forum. They're all so interesting.   Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 10:55 am verktyg Joined: 14 Jan 2007 Posts: 2814 Location: SF Bay Area sandranian wrote: I put together the Team Pro, and installed a 6-7-8 speed SRAM chain (SRAM being the closest thing to Sedis Silver that can be found right now). The problem: There was no room for the chain on the 7 speed Maillard freewheel. Now perhaps I don't have the "super plus compact" seven speed Maillard, but I could have sworn I had the right one. And besides, it worked on the C-Record hub on the last Gitane frame I had...which used Vitus dropouts. The problem is that the chain, when in the smallest gear, actuallly hits the dropout and therefore doesn't go. I fixed the problem by installing a Regina 6 speed freewheel...otherwise I would have had to block a gear, which I am loathe to do. This is just bery odd...that there isn't enough room for the Maillard 7 speed.... Any thoughts? How far are the insides of rear dropouts apart? There wasn't a strong standard for rear axle widths until Shimano brought out their SIS system: 5 speeds were 120mm wide, 6 speeds were 125mm or 126mm but 127mm, 128mm and 129mm axles were not uncommon especially after 7 speed freewheels and freewhubs came out. The current standard is: 5 speed 120mm, 6 speed 126mm, 7, 8 and some 9 speed cassette hubs are 130mm wide and some 9 speed and most 10 speed hubs and MTB hubs are 135mm wide. What might be happening is that the chain is hitting the inside of the seatstay tube at the dropout. On a lot of bikes I've had to file a slight flat on the tube at the dropout so that the chain doesn't hit it, especially where I don't want to change the axle width and re-dish the wheel. If the inside width of the dropouts is narrower than 126mm they can be easily spread a little. Most axle shafts are a little wider than necessary. You can put one or two 1mm axle washer behind the locknut on the freewheel side. You should have at least 4mm of axle sticking out on both sides of the hub. Anymore than 2mm and you should re-dish the wheel. The SRAM chains are direct descendents of Sedis chains. A 10 speed chain might be just slightly more narrow but it may not run smoothly on your cogs, chainrings or derailleur pulleys. Good luck, Chas.   Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 10:38 pm STW Joined: 12 Sep 2007 Posts: 20 Recently saw my 1975/6 Racing Team in stripped bare metal at the painter. He's a builder aswell as painter and we both noticed how clean the brazing was and how good it looked compared to the usual rep of high end Gitane. There was even a decent gesture toward filing the lugs. This was a little surprising because under paint the lugs looked worse--bulges around lugs at head tube and seat tube (not crash damage--I'm the original owner and haven't crashed this one). The seat lug is otherwise messy. The cut, fluted, and brazed seat stay top is not fully finished and shows its folds and seams. There is even a 1mm edge of seat tube sticking above the seat lug right in front where it's most noticeable. I thought about having this trimmed while the frame got painted, but these details have grown on me so I left them. Mitch Harris Little Rock Canyon, Utah 1987 Team Pro Oddities     gitaneusa.com Forum Index » Vintage Gitane You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum All times are GMT - 8 Hours   Page 1 of 2   Goto page 1, 2  Next All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First  Select a forum Gitane USA----------------Vintage GitaneGitane RacingModern GitanePro Racing - Classics/Giro/Tour....Owner Gallery   Powered by phpBB © 2001-2004 phpBB Group Designed for Trushkin.net | Themes Database.