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olivelo

hi,
just bought a gitane with super vitus 971 tubing, spidel components (stronglight/spidel 106 crankset; spidel calipers, pedals, spidel/simplex slj 5500, stronglight/spidel headset). the decals look like the ones in the 1893 catalogue, but this is a model with eyelets for mudguards. it doesn't have the plastic spoke protector found on some of the 1983 models.
looks like a decent model considering the specs of the 1983 catalogue.
i have a bunch of photos emailed by the seller but can't work out how to transfer the format. so i'm only including one crappy picture.
any idea which model it could be? the colour is light green.
best,
olivier

lofter

dont know quite yet , in the 83 catalog the super corsa the criterium and the tdf all have 971 tubing but thos models also have braze on shifters . just by looking at your pic your simplex shifters are clamp-on. send me the pics ramsfans711@insightbb.com and ill see if i can get em to open up. it might be just a little older than a 83 . i believe 81 thru 83 used the arrow decals . if i can get the pics open ill post em up. also i see something stamped into the fork crown.

logarto

I swear to God that I had a 1983 Fire Engine Red Tour De France with the chevron decals and it was Super Vitus 980 in a 62 cm, Atelier dropouts english threaded, Philippe/Atax bar and stem and pretty much a contemporary in all those respects of the '83 Super Corsa that I going to show here in the "Wanted/For Sale" Category shortly.

The next year's Tour De France was more of an Orange with the Fignon-era decals and came in a 61cm with Super Vitus 983 instead and I kept that one for 11 or 12 years. The former is still about the most flexible large racing bike I ever rode but not without its attributes none the less.

So I'm here to suggest that the last of the '83 Tour De France and Super Corsas were arrow decals and 0.8-0.5 Super Vitus 980 and I even have a bike at the other end of the size chart to prove it too.

I realize it's an abomination to hang Sante on a bike with this pedegree around these parts but I always liked the white shifters against the blue downtube just like the decal and the way that the 39 tooth blue BMX inner chainring just disappears against the frame.

It all works pretty well as an ensemble too.

I concur with the other thread about how the parellel surfaces on the shifter bosses were perpendicular to the downtube and how when indexing came along later this became a problem.

I have performed Stronglight/Spidelectomies on other bikes for fun and profit but I bought this one brand new as a frame after someone else did that. (My knock-around bike now is a 1973 Juenet with Phil Bottom Bracket and Salsa Stem with absolutely staggering fender clearance for a Reynolds 531 bike and the original parts sales paid for the "upgrades" twice over. Usually I am replacing the cranks to get longer ones.)

PS. I thought that I knew all there was to know about the Gitanes that came to us through Wisconsin but I've been humbled in that regard by some of the posters here. I did build up a couple of the Tandems though......

lofter

logarto

One interesting tidbit that I had submitted to me by someone I was selling old French bike parts to was that a lot of 70's bikes wanted much longer brake calipers in the back than in the front because someone had decided in the Centerpull era that that was an easy way to equalize the leverage between front and back.

This characteristic was common to my Juenet and a pretty choice Falk tubing Legnano that I simply could not afford to keep relative to the other 50-52 CM vintage bikes in the stable and what it was worth on eBay at the time.

That bike had me baffled for a while because it must have been a very very early example of braze-on shifters and someone had built/modified a "five speed dished for six" rear wheelset for it, (A124 Weineman Concaves on the Maillard 700 Hubs, with Robergel Trois Etoiles, thank you very much, kept those,) so I was a few weeks assuming that it naturally had 126MM Rear spacing as well what with the standard six speed Regina freewheel sitting back there like it was?

Both of these bikes could both hit 700C rims with short reach sidepulls in the front but not the back, the Juenet just barely hits them with normal reach Superbes in the back.

Among the other 50 CMs still here and nearly brand new too is a very obscure mid-1980s (Aluminum) Vitus Touring with wishbone seatstay, loooong wheelbase, setscrew seatpost holder like the later Vitus 979s, funky top tube that holds the rear brake cable & housing in a slot all the way back (not in and out of the housing, like the regular Vitus and Gitanes, which means that part of the tube was at least 8mm thick, and it was specially extruded to boot,) and non-recessed brake bolts.

I assume that it's cool to ramble on like this as long as I only try to market Gitane and Renault-Elf paraphenalia here Question

Besides I am very reluctant to sell 22 year old glued aluminum frames to anyone who might end up with my name and address afterwards and I still think that I just might end up living on a sailboat with a tiny little 50 CM frame girlfriend and thus preferring Aluminum frames someday.

I mention the Legnano only to illustrate the conumdrum of trying to accomplish a "period-correct" restoration of a mid-level bike from that far back where the frame itself was in downright spectacular condition and also indistinguishable at a distance from the top of the line product from the same maker.

In my opinion the parts that would have come with something like that really are not worth looking for, and you'll never find them anyway. So I sold it with Super Record Front and Rear Derraileurs and a 1st generation Dura Ace crank instead all for the black against orange aspect and the only other way to go, IMO would have been full first generation Dura-Ace with the black brakes, mostly because it doesn't rain any ZEUS around here.

olivelo

thanks for all the replies. i'll definitely send you the pix, lofter. thanks!

i think what you see at the top of the fork is just the gitane logo.

yes, the eyelets for mudguards and the comment about clamp-on levers etc would indicate an earlier year. and as you'll see on the pix the simplex levers levers are older.

in the 83 catalogue on the website the first model (moving from the top) to have mudguard eyelets is the gran tour with the a triple chainset. yet another indication of this being an earlier model.

the 1983 super corsa has spidel/stronglight 106. not sure about the criterium. can't see the '106' grove clearly. not sure what model simplex derailleur the 1983 criterium hass either. not slj 5500 any longer from the look of it.

the vitus tubing decals on the gran tour and the sprint look black (a quick look at the classic rendez vous vitus link suggests this is vitus 888). only the super corsa and the criterium have the 971 tubes on the gitane.usa website 1983 of catalogue (not 980, as the 980 had a 'frame' and not a 'banner' going all the way to the edge of the decal - see 83 catalogue + classic rendez vous).

the tour de france doesn't have spidel components. well, i don't have the exact specs but doesn't look like it on the 1983 catalogue photo. it looks much more 'modern' than mine (rounded shimano/mavic-like curves, black shifters + derailleur).

the vitus 971 decal is not on the seat tube on my gitane (see photo). does this difference have any signification?

i've seen some discussions here about vitus 971 etc and just wanted to add that in his book 'cycles de competition et randonneurs' from 1976, daniel rebour has the following weight ranking for steel tubing: 1) reynolds 3/10th lightest; 2) super vitus 971 6x9; 3) reynolds 5/10th; 4) columbus 6x9; 5) reynolds standard 7/10 (book published in 1976). i won't give the weights in grammes as i've already been enough of a neird for today... he gives the weight differences, but i think i don't want to push my neird-quota.

i plan to use it with mudguards, turn it into a sporty randonneur.

vive le velo!

lofter

olivelo

of course the 1983 tdf has 971 tubing but isn't spideled up, so didn't think it would be relevant to the identification of this spidel/vitus 971 gitane. looking at the specs page it definitely comes closest to the super corsa, but the finishing isn't to the same standard it seems (no chromed fork, clamped on levers) + eyelets for mudguards.
trying to situate the stronglight 106, i've looked at the px 10 history page (apologies for the blasphemy) and it was used on the top models in 1979 (PY10cp etc) and 1980 ( PRO 10 -- Reynolds 531 5/10 frameset, optional 753, custom built w/ Nervex plain lugs, chrome fork, chrome right chainstay; low-flange Spidel (Maillard?) 700 hubs, 32 spoke Super Champion rims; Simplex/Spidel SLJ A 552 front and SLJ5500CP rear derailleurs w/ retrofriction brazed-on shifters; Ideale 2002 saddle, Spidel (Mafac) LS2 sidepull brakes; Spidel (Stronglight) 106 cranks). stronglight/spidel 106 doesn't feature after 1980 according in the classic rendez vous px10 specs history (but a look at a german 1981 catalogue still has the 106 on top - see http://home.wanadoo.nl/peugeotshow/. no catalogue for 82 and 83 doesn't look like 106 (possibly 107, small photo); 84 is definitely stronglight 107).
so gitane seems to have used this crankset at the top for longer than peugeot (ok, it was different in different countries.. and my only 'evidence' is the gitane usa catalogue...), but it's an interesting indication. if the 106 was at the end of its career in 1983 but still used on super corsa, an earlier use should suggest (? or is there no logique francaise?...) a high end model as well, ie if used on the super corsa the crankset isn't over its peak yet from a gitane perspective...
if only it was possible to know when the decals changed as well. another lead could be the LS2 sidepulls on this gitane (although the photos seem to indicate LS1 at one end and LS2 at the other, but seems unlikely, just saying this because the front brake looks flat and not round as the LS2). (have a pair of NOS mafac ls1 i will use in case the brakes don't match. think the LS1s had a very short life. if LS2, 1980 or later likelier. also matches Peugept 1980 pro 10 derailleur spec (simplex 5500). 1980, 1981 or 1982?? also looked at the 1978 catalogue on the gitane usa website and none of the six or so (or more) top models seems to have eyelets for mudguards. so another mystery. why does this one have eyelets? unless the french market gitanes had more eyelets than the us ones....?
my first racing bike was a 1978 super sprint as in the gitane usa catalogue, except it wasn't white. used it to race. trying to trace it - my mother gave it away. very generous of her, but keener on the one i've found now, although the late 70s decals are nice.

olivelo

THANKS for the pix. will shut up now.

olivelo

and yes, i will amputate that stem ASAP and replace it with a philippe or an italian cousin as soon as pick up the bike.

verktyg

Super Vitus 971 was great tubing in it's day. The wall thickness of the tubes were identical to Columbus SL tubing but the steel was slightly stronger due to heat treating.

The weight of the tubes in a set is not an accurate measure of anything because some tubesets came with 9 tubes and others with 11. Also tube lengths varied and so did diameters and tapers on the forks and stays.

Gitane was notorious for making bikes with all kinds of different components depending on the intended market and part availability. My guess based on the Spidel components and the Gitane decals is that it's a 1981 or 82 model.

Spidel was a marketing consortium made up of Stronglight, Simplex, Mafac and Maillard. The companies remained independent of each other. Great components but it was a lame attempt to provide gruppos to compete against Campy and the Japanese. Rolling Eyes

The brakes are the very rare Mafac sidepull models marked Spidel.

It should ride nice.

Chas.

verktyg

Because sidepulls were considered sexier?

Mafac made a premium centerpull brake called the GT about the same time they produced these sidepulls. They were beefier than most of their earlier models and fancier too. They are also pretty rare.

Chas.

olivelo

it was the days when centre pulls stopped on racing bikes. these spidel/mafac LS2 sidepulls are quite common on ebay. the LS1s are the rare ones that just popped up for a year or so. they have a similar style to the centre pulls posted here (see photo below).

as for gruppos etc, the french have always been better on ideas than on marketing/applying ideas. that's why everyone rides reynolds and not vitus. the poor quality of the finishin, the paintwork... french cars and bikes were always rustier. that's what i like about french bikes and other products. character. (=flaws=charm). campagnolo and shimano were more pragmatic. i like the 'amateurish' (=passion) approach to marketing. the individuality of the components...

mavic was/is a more succesful gruppo attempt, but also less 'french'/vieille france'... (the mavic 451/brs500 is nice, but no caliper can beat the beauty and discreet logo approach of the dia compe gran aero).

in a way spidel meant the end of an era. a last gasp for air. i grew up in the 1970s, watched the tour in the 1970s, so that's the bike i root for (ocana, thevenet, hinault, zoetemelk, van impe, agostinho were my heroes)

olivelo

considering what tour riders were using at the time, the 1983 super corsa seems nostalgic, a 1970s relic, a museum piece, a tribute to passed glory.

not a forward-looking model. a non-innovative bike. the end of french gitane looming?

hinault came from the spidel family, lemond became mavic. was the 1983 TdF model the future (the aerodynamic ofmega crankset, the blackness)?

would be interesting to compare the US 1983 SuperCorsa to a french 1983 catalogue.

catalogues may not be reality and gitanes didn't always follow the catalogues when building their bikes.

but the catalogues are a good indication of what gitane marketing and directors thought embodied the gitane spirit of the time. the dream they were selling/believed in/wanted to believe in. this wasn't a high-tech dream, the TdF being the only item in this catalogue that remotely points to the futurism of hinault's and fignon's TT bikes.
Shocked

verktyg