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vanhelmont

I never thought I'd get a Super Corsa, but I guess no fork and a little dent kept the price down.

[img]http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320216650896&indexURL=0&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting[/img]

A couple of questions:

1. I'm thinking of using a Mondonico fork I also got off ebay last year. Does an iso headset fit a French head tube?

2. Any suggestions on touch-up paint?

3. With the left bb cup, should I use loctite or something to keep it from coming loose?

4. Would this use a 26.4 mm seatpost?

Thanks

verktyg

vanhelmont,

It should be a great riding bike. My guess is that it's about a 1972 model.

You got a good deal if the frame hasn't been crashed. I'm always leery of older frames without the original fork. Check the lugs for any sign of rippling or paint cracking under the top and down tubes at the head tube.

I was looking at that frame for someone else and contacted the seller about the fork. He said he thought that his wife threw it away.... Crying or Very sad

New wives are easier to come by than 1970s Gitane Super Corsa forks! Twisted Evil

Responses:

1. Don't contaminate a nice French bike with a non-period correct Italian fork. It's not proper etiquette and Miss Manners would never approve. Laughing

(I have a period correct all chrome plated French fork with Campy?? dropouts and a French Vagner crown which is similar to the Bocama crowns Gitane used. It might fit your bike.)

There were 2 "standard" sizes of headset fork crown races: 26.4mm and 27.0mm diameter. The Mondonico fork will most likely take an Italian headset which will interchange with most better quality English headsets. You need to make sure that the fork crown race is the correct size on any headset that you use.

Mondonico... YUCK! Silk stockings on a rooster! Rolling Eyes

The fork rake is probably a lot shorter on this fork and will negatively impact the ride and handling. Gitane Super Corsas from that period had about a 50mm-60mm fork rake. The Italian fork probably has around a 40mm fork rake; also it's probably built for use with smaller cross section 700c or sewup tires and short reach brakes. You'll end up having problems easily finding a matched set of brakes with the proper reach. The correct brakes were Mafac Competition centerpulls but Mafac Racers would work OK too.

While it's still apart, I would take the frame to a "COMPETENT" bike shop that has the proper tools for metric sizes and have them face off the top and bottom of the head tube plus the bottom bracket.

Hint: ask them about French bikes and threads first and if they Rolling Eyes

walk , no run away. Wink

Also while there, see if they can check the frame alignment and dropout widths (see above recommendation about quick departures if you don't get a warm fuzzy feeling about competency).

This frame should have 120mm wide rear dropout spacing for the original 5sp hub. If it's been spread out to 126mm for a 6sp hub make sure that the dropouts are properly aligned. Mis-aligned dropouts can cause bent or broken axles.

2. Touchup is camouflage not a repaint! You shouldn't be able to notice a scratch or chip at 5 feet Shocked

Auto parts stores sell little touchup paint tubes with brushes built in. Sometimes you can get a close match.

The paint on your frame was a "candy apple" transparent blue lacquer over a white primer rather than metallic blue. Testors makes some enamels in small bottles for models. Using several different Testor blues/greens you can mix up a color that will be close (at 5 feet).

BTW, There's work under way to get replacement foil decals for your Gitane. With replacement decals available you might want to consider a repaint.

A little rubbing compound will clean up a lot of the corrosion but use it carefully as the paint is pretty thin. Get some super fine steel wool to polish up the chrome.

3. See above note about COMPETENT shops. A good shop should have a special VAR, Campy or other make of fixed cup tool. This will allow the cup to be adequately tightened so that it wont come loose in normal use. If the cup goes in real loose then use some non-permanent Loctite.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/var/pages/var0016.html

4. The seatpost is probably 26.4mm but could be 26.6mm if the frame was made of light gage Reynolds 531 as some frames were.

Good luck and have fun.

Chas.

vanhelmont

Chas,

The Mondonico fork would be a compromise. Antonio Mondonico was an artist with lugs, pins, and Columbus tubing, and the fork would allow me to use readily available, modern, headset, stem and bars. My plan for brakes would be to use a normal reach Diacompe sidepull in back, and a similar-looking short reach in front.

There's a guy linked to by Sheldon Brown's site on French bikes who suggests replacing the fork with one that has less rake, and says it actually improves the handling. Also if I take this route, the only thing I have to buy is a headset. And I use up parts in the garage, instead of buying more, keeping my wife happy.

The result, though would be a sort of Franco-Italian Frankenbike. I couldn't use my Mafac racers. Still I could always change the fork later if handling or appearance is objectionable.

I'm watching ebay for forks, either French or at least more appropriate geometry and appearance. The head tube is 20 cm, and my fork is 231 mm, which just allows a Tange Passage steel headset to fit. A more reasonable length would be 245-250mm, I guess. Let me know if your fork is long enough, and what you would want for it.

Thanks
vanhelmont

sandranian · Site Admin

While there is certainly something to be said for keeping a bike original...anything that gets one back on the road and in use seems to be the right thing to do. The only thing that I don't like when it comes to Gitanes is people refinishing them if they are still in "OK" condition...

"parts is parts"...but a Gitane is a Gitane!

verktyg

"Parts is Parts" but as old time Harley riders say.... "Better a sister in 'the house' than a brother on a Honda!" Twisted Evil

Chas.

vanhelmont

My ebay searches have yielded one fork possibility, which is from a Raleigh Super Course. The crown looks something like the Wool Jersey Super Corsa crown, the steerer is 250 mm, and it would surely work with Mafac Racers, but I'm guessing it's high tensile steel.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=300200592793&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=020

Chas, you mentioned you had a fork that might be appropriate. How long is the steerer?

The other thing I'm wondering about is stems. Sheldon Brown says AVA stems are dangerous, and somewhere I read something to the same effect about Pivo stems. Are old French stems safe? I know any alloy part can fail due to fatigue, but some brands, like Cinelli, seem to have more reputation for strength. Some SC's came with 3T Record stems, which I see sometimes on ebay. They are probably 22.2 mm, but Sheldon Brown suggests wrapping with sandpaper and grinding it down to fit. Anybody have any experience trying this?

I had a low-end Viscount, which came with a steel fork instead of the "death fork." After about 14 years of riding there was a pronounced sag to the no-name alloy bars, especially on one side. Thinking back, maybe I'm lucky it was stolen!

verktyg

Sorry I haven't gotten back with you. I started writing a short novella for you but got side tracked. Embarassed

I'll check the fork tomorrow and get back with you.

Chas.

verktyg

vanhelmont

Chas,
Thanks for checking it, but it's just a little short Crying or Very sad

But your efforts aren't in vain, I won't put the Mondonico fork on it. Smile

I bought a Raleigh Super Course fork with chrome Vagner crown and bottom half. Once I figure out how to match the paint it should look pretty authentic, and the rake should be about right.

verktyg

Shoot and here I thought I was going to make some real money on that fork. Wink

I hadn't really looked at it closely before. I thought the steerer was longer. A buddy gave it to me. He got it on eBay for ~$75 but couldn't use it for some reason.

Good luck on the project.

BTW, Here's part of what I was writing up for you.

Most racing bikes from that era still had clearance for fenders (or for mud buildup from riding on poorly paved roads). That's why they came with fender eyelets on the dropouts. Even Eddy Merckx was known to have raced at least once with fenders.

Towards the mid 1970s Italian frames started coming without the eyelets. They also had less tire clearance which meant the fork blades were shorter. By that time they were also making frames with tighter angles, 74° - 75° head and seat tubes vs. the earlier 72° - 73° angles. These steeper angled fames used forks with less "trail" or rake.

Most of the older French (and British) racing models had relaxed frame angles which is why they are still admired by many. A frame with 72° angles is going to be more comfortable when riding long distances on rough road surfaces.

If you put a more modern fork with shorter blades in an older frame it will more than likely cause the head tube to sit more upright. I've seen older bikes that were built with 72° angles that ended up with 76° or even 77° angles. That might be OK for motor pacing behind a derney but makes for pretty squirrelly handling otherwise. Shocked

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derny

The comment that someone made in Sheldon Brown's web site about French bikes benefiting from changing forks is a bit of an over generalization. Here's a picture of an old French fork with about 3" of rake. These long rakes where designed to work as springs to reduce shock to the hands and upper body when riding on rough roads.

It could be replaced with a proper fitting fork with a shorter rake and that would improve handling but as I mentioned above you can't randomly grab just any fork and expect good results. Rolling Eyes

Chas.

vanhelmont

Thanks Chas for the info.

I actually calculated that if I put the Mondonico fork on my Trek 500, which has 73 degree angles, it would end up 74 degrees. It's not as short as some, I think, but it's about 1 cm less than the stock fork. It also has about 1 cm less rake, so there would be a little more trail, even with the steeper angle. The Trek for some reason has less trail than most sport touring bikes, so that might be an improvement. However it will be my off-road ride, with 27x1 3/8 tires, when I get the SC in operation, so I'll leave it as it is.

Then in 9 years, when I turn 60, I'll be old enough for Derny riding, so I'll get my Mondonico fork out of the garage and head for Europe. Those are interesting machines. I had heard of them, but didn't know much about them.