gitaneusa.com :: View topic - Old Frame with a Photo of Jacques Anquetil

nevercroak

Hi,
I've got a Gitane frame at home but realy can't find any information about it (model, year, ...). I hope you could help me identifying this frame even if it was maybe never built for the U.S. market. (the frame is currently in Germany)

It has the Gitane Logo on the head tube, and a picture of "Jacques Anquetil" on the seat tube.

It uses Nervex Pro lugset (except bb-shell but including fork crown), Campagnolo dropouts and Reynolds 531 tubeset.

On the left side of the seat clamping bolt (viewed from rear) there is an "F" stamped into the lug (and a point a little above the "F" - don't know if they belong together...) on the Right side of the bolt there is another stamping showing a number (after the fat dot there is a 3 that is nearly invisible in the foto, but I can't tell if the number start with the 3 or a 1).

At the left rear dropout there is another stamping saying:
"B 37991" (at least I hope this is what it should say)

Hope you could help me and the pictures and my descripion could help you.

Thanks in advance, Arne

nevercroak

Some more information:
There are 3 parts that are original I think, a very old Shimano 600 rear derailleur, a Huret front derailleur (can't find any Sachs logos, so I think this was built before Sachs took over Huret, maybe this helps dating) an an old Stronglight headset that is installed in the frame.

Hopefully this is usefull Wink

Arne

sandranian · Site Admin

Thanks for sharing pictures of that bike. It is indeed rare in the USA, as it is from the 1960's, just before they were available here in numbers.

The rust issue must be dealt with...and I don't know how you will be able to preserve that frame without refinishing it.

vanhelmont

Since I spend too much time looking at the catalogs on this website, the best match I can find is this:

http://www.gitaneusa.com/images/catalog/us1960_pg1.jpg

This is a Tour de France, from some time in the '60s. In the mid sixties Anquetil was of course winning the Tour de France on Gitanes. This TdF, like your bike, has Nervex lugs, Reynolds frame tubes(I would guess straight guage since they would surely say 'double butted' if it was), and durifort fork. The catalog bike also has Durifort stays, and it's likely yours does too. Durifort is a mid-level tubing made by Atelier de la Rive (I hope I spelled right.) Most of their tubesets are "Vitus". The Stronglight headset and Huret derailleur would be original, and the Shimano 600 would be probably a replacement in the '70s. The only obvious difference between your bike and the catalog bike is the catalog bike looks like it has chromed chain stays, and lacks the Anquetil picture.

If it was mine, what I would try first would be a phosphate solution for treating rust on cars. There are several of these sold at auto parts shops in the US. It converts the rust into an iron phosphate, along with organic stuff that seals out more moisture. It will even convert the rust that is under the paint near the damaged spots. I tried it on a steel Trek, which is nothing very special, but I wanted to stop the rust without stripping it. The paint with rust under it bubbled up, but the paint over good steel was not damaged. Then you can remove the loose paint and rust, and prime or just touch up the spots. Use a small brush. That's where I messed up on the Trek- too much touch up paint. Of course this is much older and rustier than my Trek was. If you have to strip it you will want to somehow reproduce the cool decals.

nevercroak

Hi, and thanks for the quick replys.

One thing to notice as a difference betwen the "Catalog Bike" and mine, is that mine has no brazed on parts except the lever stop (the "Catalog Bike" has brazed on party for holding an air pump I think).

Repainting is essential I think, as someone painted over many little spots of rust und maybe scratches with a slightly different color.
The only problem would be reproducing the decals, or does anyone know where to get some original ones?

A little story to tell aout the frame, so you know what other peple do to these:
I got these frame from the bicycle dealer I work at, it was about to be thrown away as it looked realy shitty (The bike was thrown together with a bunch of parts, Shimano 105 Brakes and Brake levers mid 90th I think, mud Guards and a rack). I took is home without looking what manufacturer or whaterver it was, simply to have a new frame to build a bike with, as this was a frame for real racing bikes.

One other thing, does anyone know the decal on the right fork blade? Would you please let me know if you coul identify it...

If you want some more information, please ask, I could look for the shifting levers and post a photo, maybe this will help precise dating of the bike.

Arne

nevercroak

sandranian · Site Admin

Durifort forks, which was an old tubing manufacturer, I think associated with Vitus in some way...but I think that some of the others on this forum could further enlighten us. Found this link regarding the history of Vitus and, to a lesser extent, Durifort:
http://www.classicrendezvous.com/France/Ateliers-dela_%20Rive.htm
http://www.classicrendezvous.com/France/Vitus_history.htm

verktyg

Nice old mid 60s Gitane frame. The 3 main tubes are indeed butted Reynolds 531 tubing. The decal on the fork indicates that the forks and stays are made with Durifort tubing. This was common on many better quality French bikes up through the mid 1970s. Zeus and other continental makers also used this tubing combination.

Shimano didn't introduce the 600 series of components until the mid 1970s.

The bike probably came with a Huret Allvit rear derailleur. Believe it or not, these were considered the "hot ticket" at one time and when well adjusted and lubed they worked better than the sacred cow Campy derailleurs of that era.

The wall thickness on the Durifort forks and stays should be thick enough to be safe from rust through problems which is fairly common on light weight frames this old. One problem was the builders didn't take the time to completely remove brazing flux which could cause corrosion over time. The only way to tell for sure is to remove the paint from the seat stays which are usually where rust takes it toll.

Original decals are probably going to be impossible to find. Do a web search for decals. There are several people in the UK that sell old bike decals plus others who can make good copies.

http://www.classicrendezvous.com/ClassicRe.htm

Chas.

nevercroak

Hi, and thanks for the information about the fork and the tubing.

As I read through the details of the different models I noticed that the TdF should have golden paintings around the lugs, and mine definitely has these. But another thing I noticed was that the TdF had been built with Simplex dropouts in the 60th (at least I understodd it like this) but mine is built with Campagnolo drop outs and if it is from the 60th than this would be an argument against TdF.

So may it be a Super Corsa, or a Tdf as vanhelmont said?

Or has anyone seen a Gitane buit with Nervex Pro Lugs (and fork-crown, as I read that this part of the lugsset was rarely used due to it's high price) and knows which model it was?

Arne

vanhelmont

'Maybe one could not se it on the Reynolds sticker,it Says "Construit avec Reynolds 531 3 Tubes Renforces"'

Arne, you are right. Now that you wrote it down I can see it. As verktyg says, it's three butted tubes, rather than triple butted. The top tube and down tube would be double butted, and the seat tube single butted. Probably the best tubing available at the time.

I don't know if it's a Tour de France. That's just the closest match in the catalogs we have. TdF were normally Simplex dropouts in the 1970's, but some had Campagnolo dropouts. Maybe it's some other model we don't know about. But surely it's a great frame. Good luck with it.

nevercroak

Ok, thanks for the descripion of the stickers meaning - then I was wrong with my theory Wink

And also thanks for the help identifying the frame, and all the information I got.

Arne

DP

Hi I just looked over these fotos, I believe the frameset is likely late-50's at latest ... the foto of the rear campy dropout has an "open C" font which went away in the late 50's very early 60's....but won't say for sure without a snap of the rear drive side dropout. The likeness of Anquetil is a cool touch, and remember he won his first TdF as a rookie in 1957.

This is cool to see, as prolly 35 years ago I bought an OLD Gitane in blue with red panels from an exchange student, it too had campy dropouts, but full, dry-fix decals (no foil) I wish I had fotos of it today, but the fotos of yours brought back fond memories. Thanks so much for sharing !

sandranian · Site Admin

I am not convinced that is an "open C" stamp on the dropout. But it isn't the clearest...and certainly some pictures of the other dropouts would help.

verktyg

nevercroak

So,
here is another foto of the rear dropout, this time drive side Wink

I think they look exactly like these: http://www.velostuf.com/campy1010sport.jpg