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verktyg

DON'T go with 32 spokes for offroad unless you want to carry the bike out of the woods some day.

Contrary to all of the BS put out by the light weight techno-weenies, the switch from 36 spokes to 32 spokes was an economic one not based on any improvement in performance. Rolling Eyes

If you build 100,000 wheelsets a year, that's 4 x 200,000 less spokes you have to buy and install: 800,000 is a considerable savings not just in spokes but fewer holes that need to be drilled in rims and hubs too. You could buy quite a few croissants with the money you saved. Shocked

I've never broken a spoke using heavier gage premium quality spokes. I like low flange hubs for almost every application. High flange hubs became popular during the early days of the US Bike Boom in the 1970s because they looked flashier than pedestrian low flange hubs. Also most cheap bikes had junk low flange hubs. By the mid 70s low flange hubs came back into fashion.

I like to use 4 cross spoking when ever possible with 36 spoke wheels. The combination of 4x low flange hubs makes for longer spokes which absorb more shock and impact from riding on a rough surface. I also prefer straight 14 gage (2mm) stainless steel spokes both front and back for off road riding. Many wheel builders prefer lighter 14-15 gage (2mm-1.8mm) 3x spokes because they are easier to lace up.

Remember in cyclocross events, there's always someone handy with a spare wheel so that you can keep racing. If you are 10 miles off road there are no spare wheels! Sad

Check out Sheldon Brown's (RIP) web site and see what Jobst Brandt has to say about wheel building. Jobst put on a slide presentation a few weeks ago and he told of blowing 3 spokes on a hard Alpine climb. He said that because he was using 36 spokes, he was able to true up his wheel enough to descend to the next town and get replacement spokes; something he couldn't have done with a lower spoke count wheel. Embarassed

Chas.

Paul Wiseman

natprice

I guess I had misinterpreted Sheldon Brown's website?

"If you want highest performance, it is generally best to have more spokes in the rear wheel than the front. For instance, 28/36 is better than 32/32 People very rarely have trouble with front wheels:

* Front wheels are symmetrically dished

* Front wheels carry less weight

* Front wheels don't have to deal with torsional loads (unless there's a hub brake)

If you have the same number of spokes front and rear, either the front wheel is heavier than it needs to be, or the rear wheel is weaker than it should be."

verktyg

Sheldon probably wasn't talking about Off Road Riding. The old standard for road bikes in the UK was 32 spokes in the front and 40 spokes in the rear wheel. Part of that logic was probably because of the strength of spokes available at that time.

I have some road bikes with 32 spoke front wheels and 36 spoke rear wheels. I came by a bunch of quality 32 spoke front wheels cheap. They all have 14 (2mm) gage 3x spokes and are a little bit harsh riding. The same rim/hub/tire combinations with 36 14-15 (2mm-1.8mm) gages butted spokes in a 4x pattern are much smoother riding.

The spokes along with the forks and stays are part of a bikes suspension. Longer spokes are more flexible and absorb more road shock and vibration thus smoother riding.

Front wheels are more likely to Pac-man or taco than rear wheels because it's the first point of encounter with an object such as a rock, log or sewer grate.

You're more likely to be able to true up a bent 36 spoke wheel enough to get home than with a lower spoke count wheel. Carry a spoke wrench just in case and also some extra spokes taped to one of the frame tubes.

Low spoke count wheels push the techno-weenie envelope a little too far. Only fools carry their bikes out of the woods more than once because of bent low spoke count wheels. Rolling Eyes

Also, it very difficult to do 4x spoking with a 32 spoke wheel.

Carry some padding for your shoulder, it makes carrying the bike easier.
Wink

Chas.

natprice

Alright, thanks for all the help.

What do I need to look at when choosing a freewheel? I live in Florida so I won't exactly be biking up any mountains. Any brands that you might recommend? Does anybody know what the original freewheel is? I am pretty sure mine is still on there...

verktyg

The early 70s Tour de France models had 5 speed 14-24T or 14-26T Atom or Maillard freewheels.

Most of what I've seen of Florida was pretty flat. On a road bike in that kind of terrain you can get by with a 21T to 23T large sprocket freewheel.

When riding off road on soft ground, sand or mud, shifting to lower gears helps in keeping your balance at slower speeds.

In your case a 28T rear sprocket is probably low enough.

Have fun...

Chas.

natprice

Based on the chart on the sheldon brown website: (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tire_sizing.html#width)

It seems like I want a set of rims with an interior width of about 19-20 mm. Does that seem right? When a set of rims lists a rim width is it usually the interior or the exterior width though? Any recommendations on where / what rims to buy?

Gtane

In retrospect, it may be better, as has been recommended earlier within this thread further to your suggestion, to go with tubs. You will be able to use virtually any tub rim with cyclocross tubs (wide choice available) so waiving the possible technical complications of rim and tyre fit that you may have with high pressures on older rims. There are however a reasonable number of HP cyclocross tyres available (which should be able to be used easily on modern HP rims) but if I were to go for cyclocross I would choose tubs.

One huge benefit of using tubs is that you can still ride with a flat, something that's not possible on HPs and if you're a long way from home on your last tyre then the choice of going to tubs could be critical. Just take three or so tubs with you as back-up if you go this route.

While writing this post I quickly researched the subject and discovered this excellent site which will help you further:

http://www.cyclocrossworld.com/

Within the site is a very useful technical section covering thoughts on, among other subjects, wheels, tyres and rims (high pressures and tubs):

http://www.cyclocrossworld.com/Tech.cfm

natprice

Took a while to come back and update this but I finally got my wheels built. The only problem is the chain hits the frame when in the last gear in the rear. Doesn't bother me too much but if anybody has ideas about how to fix it that would be great.

Wish I had a better way to take pics but here are some pics for now:
http://picasaweb.google.com/NatBPrice/Wheels?authkey=5SsI3d3jj-c&feat=directlink

Thanks for all the help!!!

vanhelmont

natprice,

I had this problem. What I did was put an extra washer between the drive side lock nut and cone to get a tiny increase in space between the frame and the cogs. I actually put a washer on each side to keep the wheel centered in the frame. I was temporarily running a 120 mm rear wheel on a frame intended for 126 mm, so the washers made it fit better, but I don't think a mm extra width will hurt anything.

Dave

Gtane

Natprice,

It's hard to see from the photo but do you have a 5 or 6 speed block fitted to the machine?

Tim

natprice

Its a NOS 5 speed Suntour freewheel with a campy hub. I had thought of the washer idea and that might be the simplest route to take since it would only need a little more clearance to work fine.

verktyg

Greetings all,

In the late 1980s Shimano set the standards for the OLD (Over Locknut Dimension) for rear hubs. This was due to the mishmash of "standard" widths from various manufacturers. It was causing problems with Shimano SIS index shifting setups.

Prior to that OLDs were nominal widths:

5 speed hubs 119, 120, 121, 122 & 124mm
6 speed hubs 124, 125, 126, 127 & 128mm
7 speed hubs 126, 127 & 128mm

The Standards set by Shimano and later adopted by most others:

Road Hubs

5 speed hubs 120mm
6 speed hubs 126mm
7 speed hubs early 126mm
7 speed hubs later 130mm
8, 9, 10 speed hubs 130mm

MTB Hubs

6, 7 speed hubs early 130mm
7 speed hubs later 135mm
8, 9, 10 speed hubs 135mm

I recently acquired several early 70s Gitanes with Campagnolo Nuovo Tipo hubs with the round holes in the flanges. They have 119mm OLD rear hubs. Why? Who knows?

Another consideration, it was quite common for bike mechanics and owners to add or leave out washers on the rear hub axles to get additional frame clearance (or other reasons).

Chas.