gitaneusa.com :: View topic - Restoration Project (Sticker Location Help Requested)

Kinst VonSterga

In preparation of having the frame restored or repainted, I would say that a 1/3rd of the paint is compromised (oxidized), with some minimal surface rust present in certain areas. There is very little to no rust present inside the tubes, thanks to someone's ample use of grease, which will be cleaned out and chemically treated with a professional rust inhibitor. I plan on using Cyclart to restore the frame, unless someone can recommend a better frame restorer? Cyclart also can rechrome any part of the frame that needs it. I also plan to have the top part of the forks painted to match the frame color, as the person who stripped the paint off of the fork left some of the paint on the underside of the fork crown, etc.

Here's where I need your help. I received my replica-set of stickers from CycloMondo, in addition to some other original stickers that I acquired on ebay. The stickers for the down tube/seat tube are a no-brainer, but some of the others I'm uncertain about. If one can tell me which sticker number (ie. a-orig, c-replica, etc) goes where, that would be great.

I also have a host of campy stickers, but don't know if any of them are appropriate or not, and where they should go. The parts that I've gathered up include a campy nuovo (groupo) pat. 74, to match the approx. age of the frame, with the exception of Tipo hubs, Mavic Module E rims, Maillard freewheel, 73 Phillipe stem and handlebar, 460d Lyotard, and campy SR levers that I plan to use. The wheel set found in the below pics are just spares used to prop the bicycle up.

Since most of the campy parts were already found on this bike when I purchased it, I'm staying with campy in lieu of stronglight, etc. There were some others campy parts that I simply swapped out for a 74' vintage, keeping everything somewhat consistent. My intended use of the bicycle is to ride, not just hang on the wall and gawk over (which I may do too Very Happy

).

ps. The stickers are not to scale (I just resized the images to fit/squeeze them onto a single sheet).

Additional pics from my first post last month:

http://www.gitaneusa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=645

verktyg · Last edited by verktyg on Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:18 am; edited 1 time in total

The Campy decals like you have were usually found on British and Italian bikes. Some of those Campy decals were used by bike shops and bike owners when they upgraded their components to Campy parts.

A few Campy equipped Super Corsa, Gran Tourisme and Super Pista models may have had the "K" style Campy stickers on the down tubes above the shift levers but the originals were fragile waterslide decals and never lasted very long. There were never that many of those models imported into the US and they stopped coming in after 1973. I don't ever recall seeing Campagnolo decals on any other model Gitane bikes.

Many top end French bikes from that era were equipped with all French components or at least Stronglight or TA cranks and usually Mafac brakes. There was a lot of fierté Française (French pride) so there weren't that many all Campy French bikes. Eddy Merckx started off on a stock standard PX10, Thévenet won the TdF twice with off the shelf French bikes and one of LeMonds TdF victories was on a French equipped bike. (notice I didn't mention the "P" word). Laughing

The only Campy components on a Gitane Tour de France would have been the Nuovo Tipo hubs. All of the other Campy components on your bike were probably installed by a previous owner which was a common practice - or as I suggested before, if they are original then you have a bike that was made for the European market such as a Super Olympic or Olympic model rather than a Tour de France that was built for the US market.

DECALS:

"C" These Gitane Mylar foil decals were discontinued in 1973. They switched to the more scratch resistant plastic yellow (or green) decals like you have.

"D" fork decals are correct - "O" fork decals are pre 1974.

"E" is the correct head tube decal if you are convinced that your bike is a 1974 model otherwise "I" like on your bike is the correct one.

As one of the few people here who have assembled new 1974, 75 and 76 Gitane TdFs out of the box, I think that your bike is a 1976 model. The 1974 and 75 TdFs had painted rear triangles not chrome and only the 3 main tubes were Reynolds 531 tubing, not the forks and stays like on your bike.

"M" and "N" Reynolds decals are pre 1974 style. In 1974 almost all bikes made of Reynolds 531 came with the newer style decals with the gold bar at the bottom. The Reynolds fork decals were probably not used because the frame decal says that all of the tubes, forks (fourreaux) and stays (arrieres) are Reynolds 531.

The Reynolds decal on your bike is on the seat tube. The Reynolds decal on a 1974 or 75 TdF would have been on the down tube above the shift levers like this:

I'm not a big fan of CycleArt's work so I can't really say anything positive about them. There are other places that do better and/or less expensive work. Rick Stefani of D & D Cycles up in the Bay Area has a good reputation for quality paint jobs. They work with a number of local frame builders. I have no connection to them, just passing on their information.

D&D Cycles
2574 Grant Ave.
San Lorenzo, CA 94580
510-278-2976

http://www.rebolledocycles.com/process.php

http://www.mikkelsenframes.com/Frame-803201-aboutpage803201.html?refresh=1203701320433

Good luck, it should be a really nice bike.

Oh, and BTW the long point Bocama lugs with the "V" cutouts were not in use until at least 1976.

Chas.

Kinst VonSterga

verktyg

Kinst,

I'm really convinced that your bike is NOT a 1974 Tour de France. For starters not many of these were sold in the US because:

A: In 1974 US Bike Boom bubble had burst and there was a glut of less expensive pre 1974 European bikes of all brands in the sales and distribution network.

B: Gitane lost a lot of market share in 1974 when they switched importers from Mel Pinto who was their long time importer/distributor (and very knowledgeable about the industry) to Gitane Pacific in Southern California (with little or no prior experience). It appeared that Gitane Pacific was starting to assemble bikes from painted frames and loose components in order to cut costs related to import duties and the bad exchange rate between the US dollar and European currencies.

C: Scarcity, Gitane went from offering 10+ models to around 4 or 5 plus several really poor quality bikes made for them in Taiwan (40 Lb. clunkers). We couldn't get many 1974 Gitanes to sell but there were still plenty of the pre 1974 bikes available from Mel Pinto.

D: Price! The 1974 Gitanes were way overpriced compared to comparably equipped Peugeot, Motobecane and Raleigh bikes. We ended up selling most of them at clearance prices just to get rid of them.

E: Components, when compared with new competitive models in 1974 the pre 1974 Gitane Tour de France bikes were considered "stodgy" by most inexperienced bike buyers. Foil decals, Simplex plastic derailleurs, Mafac brakes and cast aluminum stems were looked upon as signs of a cheap bike. Never mind that they had a great Reynolds 531 frame.

The 1974 Tour de France was an early response to the "Image is Everything" marketing approach. Gitane addressed the appearance issues with better quality paint and new more scratch resistant decals BUT... The 1974 TdF had lower quality frames, only the 3 main tubes were Reynolds 531 and they used the Huret "honey comb" rear dropouts.

The 1974 and later TdFs came with Huret Challenger derailleurs. These are quite good but suffered from a worse consumer image than plastic Simplex dérailleurs because of all of the Huret Allvit derailleurs found on millions of clunky old Schwinns.

They also continued to use Mafac centerpull brakes which squealed when not properly set up and thus viewed as being cheap.

BTW, less than 5% of the bikes imported into the US before 1977 could be considered "Pro" quality.

The original Tour de France was an entry level pro racing model bike. Many affluent US bike buyers bought better quality bikes because they could afford them rather than for what the bikes were designed to do.

The 1974 Gitane Tour de France was designed to compete against the Peugeot PR10 (not the PX10 as previous models were), Motobecane Grand Jubile and several Raleighs with only 3 tubes Reynolds. They were a step down from the earlier TdFs.

We quit selling Gitanes by the end of 1976 for all of the above reasons.

There were several Gitane dealers in Sacramento, CA who sold some of the higher end models that weren't readily available to most other dealers. I don't know much about the details.

If you look at the details in the catalog section of this web site you will see that there were no Campy equipped bikes listed in any of the US sales brochures from 1973 on.

The date of Campy components is not a good measure of determining the age of any bike that doesn't have a verifiable history. My verified 1967 PX10 has a 1973 Simplex Criterium rear derailleur. As I said before, my guess is that you have a later model bike that someone put Campy components on or you have an Olympic or Super Olympic model bike that was made for the European market. This is not a bad thing!

Very few bikes came with clearcoat until the late 1970s so I wouldn't fret over the lack of it on your frame. One of the problems with French bikes in general and Gitanes in particular was the poor finish quality. We had a stack of replacement Gitane decals plus a small cans of all of the paint colors to fix damage incurred in shipping. Crooked decals were quite common.

It seems that you are "wishing" your bike to be something that it may not be. Unless you are looking to create a concours model bike, my suggestion would be to have it repainted with new decals applied, put on good components then ride and enjoy it.

Ed Litton in Richmond, California is one of the best restorers that I know of. He makes frames look like they just came off the showroom floor. They look original not some gloppy clearcoat paint job. He has a very large backlog of work so as with many other restorers it takes time to get something done by him.

Chas.

Kinst VonSterga

sandranian · Site Admin

After skimming all of the above...do you think the forks are original? That bike has a bunch of oddities, and may be a full Reynolds 531 bike, don't you think? The Gitane TdF sold in the mid 1970's with the 3-Reynolds tubes didn't have chrome rear triangles, did they? Mine doesn't....and the one listed on the 1976 French catalogue has a chromed rear.

Am I way off in this, or has this already been addressed above? I am a bit tired...so give me a break!

PS: GO GERMANY.

Kinst VonSterga

sandranian · Site Admin

No chance of it being an old Huffy! The paint may have been removed on the fork, because there wouldn't be any reason for overspray on the fork (they are painted separately anyway).

Have you looked at the catalogues on the GitaneUSA site? See the cover and back cover of the 1974 french catalogue? That may answer some questions for you....

Kinst VonSterga

sandranian · Site Admin

I would, for the sake of determining what type of frame you have, ignore the stickers. First, you may be attempting to identify with absolute particularity that which cannot be identified with absolute particularity! Gitane had a nasty habit of producing bicycles that did not match the specifications or designs listed in the catalogues. This is especially true in the 1970s...and is true even today.

I would think that the chrome rear triangle would be a better indication of the quality of the frame than the decals. Also, notice that the French bikes did sometimes place the decals on the seat tubes. As for the lugs, that would be a good indication of the date of the frameset, but even that will only get you to within a year or two.

While I understand your desire to get it exactly right, it may be impossible to do. My own personal opinion...is to build the bike you want. If you are going to remove decals, then put the decals on that you want, and look at the catalogues for the examples. I don't think that any of the "campagnolo" decals were ever used by Gitane, but I could be wrong. And even if they weren't, it isn't a crime to use them if you like them.

I wouldn't have the bike repainted though. I think that is a shame, but again...its your bike, and as long as you aren't cutting stuff off of it, I think you should be able to do what you like, with minimal criticism from the folks in the "Gitane community"! By the way...cute kid. Mine posed with my 1976 when it was being built....
http://www.gitaneusa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=218

Kinst VonSterga

I don't know what a frame/paint restorer can do now adays, but I can't just leave the frame alone as there are too many areas that are near bare metal, some surface rust, and/or oxidized paint. Perhaps something a restorer can treat/work with, rather than repaint ... we'll see.

With that said, I officially declare this bicycle a 197-ish Tour-de-Je-Ne-Sais-Quoi.

Concerning my youngest daughter, I'm happy to say that I can guarantee her age and model with the greatest of certainty, unless my wife pulls a gitane on me concerning her true origins Wink

verktyg

Well put counselor... Wink

There are really no definitive answers about specifications in the realm of European sporting bikes from the 1960s through the 1990s. When these bikes were produced the manufacturers frequently used whatever components they could get at the time. There was no idea among the various bike makers that 20-30 years on that collectors would ponder the correctness of their specifications.

These kind of minutiae are incessantly hashed over on the TI Raleigh Team Pros web site. There are several true experts that frequently contribute to that forum. They worked at the Raleigh facilities that built the Team Raleighs.

If you want to build a concours bike then do the technical research and don't rely on the opinions of others. Otherwise just put together a bike that satisfies you requirements and enjoy it. Very few of my bikes are factory correct but they are enjoyable riding.

Chas.

verktyg

Kinst VonSterga

[quote="verktyg"]

verktyg

Kinst,

One other caveat, it looks like you bought a set of decals from a seller on eBay who has been listing "original" Gitane decal "set" with mismatched foil down tube decals from the pre 1974 era. Some of these decals may not react well with some clearcoat over sprays.

The decals sold by Cyclomondo are supposed to be compatible with the commonly used clear coatings.

My suggestion is to have your painter test their clear spray on a small parts of several of the decals that have been cut off for testing.

Chas.