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greyhundguy

A small frame TdF for sale in Chicago. Looks to be in very good original condition with a couple of nice upgrades (pedals & 700c rims).
http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/bik/810317542.html

Jay
Virginia

Gtane

That's a lovely looking bike Jay. Terrific find. The Tipo hubs and Mafac brakes on top of the cracking condition and other components make this a machine to go after. The rims don't look to be original, and some rather nice period toe clips and straps are needed for the pedals but these are minor details that can be easily fixed to further increase the machine's value. I'm not an expert on original condition regards the marque but it looks like it may well be on quick inspection.

Probably the best example I've seen for sale in recent times.

Thanks

Tim

greyhundguy

Tim,
Hopefully a short Wink

GUSA list member can score a nice bike.

Jay
Virginia

Gtane

Jay,

It would indeed be great to see it go to a forum member.

Tim

verktyg

Bike looks great!

Almost all original except for the saddle, pedals and clincher rims and tires.

Chas.

Gtane

The bike does look terrific Chas. There's just something about it that sets it apart - a certain elegance with understated class.

A really nice find, Jay.

Chas, would I be correct in observing Campagnolo droupouts?

I hope it remains as a complete and historic example like the other machines within the forum.

Tim

greyhundguy

Tim,
I found it on a post to a different list and posted it here hoping someone could get a nice clean example of a TdF. It's waaaaaaaay too small for me and waaaaaaay to much gas to go get it.

I bought a nice 58cm White TdF(72) about a month ago. It's about 70% original components and I hope will look as nice as this one when I finish the refurb.

Jay
Virginia

verktyg

Gtane

Thanks Chas.

Chas, is there any information on production figures of Gitanes, domestic and export, through the '50s, '60s and '70s? Perhaps for each model?

It would also be interesting to marry this information up with sales figures for the same periods to see any parallels, or not, with demand. So overall, the same type of information as published by the motor industry.

Tim

verktyg

Tim,

In the US after WWII adult bike riding quickly gave way to the automobile and with it so did interest in bike racing which was very popular at one time.

In the 1950s most bikes sold in the US were aimed at people under 16 years of age - 16 being the age that people could get a drivers license.

Most of these were single speed bikes with coaster brakes and balloon tires. Around 300,000 3 speed bikes a year being imported from the UK. A few bikes were also imported from France and Italy which may have been derailleur models.

In 1960 Schwinn introduced a US built derailleur model bike aimed at American teenagers. Previously they had only been building a few 3 speed models plus a small number custom built Paramount models with derailleurs.

During the 1960s there was some renewed interest in bike racing and performance riding. It was mostly centered around a few large US cities like Boston, New York, Philadelphia, Chicago, Los Angeles and San Francisco.

During those years a limited number of derailleur bikes from France, Italy and the UK made their way into the US. I got my first derailleur bike in Japan in 1964. It was a Bridgestone with European components. I brought it home to the States and got a lot of strange looks riding it around in the mid 60s.

By the late 60s "10 speeds" were becoming popular around college campuses. Clunky Schwinn 40 Lb. bikes were some of the more common models. When I was going to school in 1968 I even had one for a few weeks before it got stolen. I recall seeing a few Italian performance models in those days but not much else.

In 1968 ~ 7 million bikes were sold in the US. Of those, 5.5 million were kids bikes. About 820,000 were derailleur equipped adult models, 60% of which were imported.

The US Bike Boom started in 1971 and lasted through the end of 1974. During 1972, 73 and 74 about 5 million bikes a year were imported into the US.

Up through the mid 1970s there were never more than a few hundred thousand high end performance bikes of all makes imported into the US. A $300 bike was an extravagant luxury for most Americans.

A large percentage of the bikes seen on eBay, Craig's List from that era are the better quality models. But consider this, most of the lower end models became Toyotas or Hyundais long ago. The better quality bikes have survived because they sat in someone's garage or basement or private collection.

My guess is that the better quality European bikes never amounted to more than about 5% of the total bike sales in the US. (why I cringe whenever I see a beautiful classic bike butchered into a fixie by some fool who was "pissin in pampers" when the bike was originally built)

This probably doesn't answer your question but most bike makers were not very forth coming with sales info about their products.

Most of this data came from Frank Berto's book "The Dancing Chain" and other sources.

Chas.

Gtane

Thanks very much indeed Chas, that certainly gives me a better understanding of the US market.

The same was true to some extent in the UK where we had many frame builders making the bulk of units sold. Today the shift is more world bikes than domestic and would hazard a guess for the reasons being manufacturing costs. Whereas the US has a, and has had a, huge manufacturing base so maintaining the the domestic majority. Some terrific product too if I may say.

I agree, the information does not entirely cover the question but then it was a huge, huge all encompassing question. The detail within the thread regards units sold, equipment on those units an where they were sold just got me thinking about the bigger picture. Probably something we'll never know but slowly one can begin to piece information together with detail as you have kindly posted.

The '70s bike boom was clearly huge. Massive numbers that are now historic but at the time it was a market that was unusually hungry for product and needed to be satisfied. There has been an increase in bicycle interest and sales in the UK as a result of recent fuel prices (as with the '70s but to a lesser extent) and our success at the Olympics but not sure to what extent at this time. This trend looks to continue for sometime.

I was taken by the recent fact published recently where bicycle have outsold cars in Australia for the past five years or so. That is incredible, and again, like the US in the late 60's, Paul Wiseman mentioned that this was mainly due to the sale of children's bikes. Perhaps these '68 US figures could be extrapolated to a degree throughout the early '70s.

There is certainly a fresh appetite for bicycles across the world, at this moment in time, and manufacturers are already seizing opportunities that we have not seen in the last couple of decades. For example, dedicated fixed wheel bikes are now being sold in mainstream catalogues in the UK and are also being given prime space on retail websites. So saving some of the older, more classic machines from being slimmed down or butchered. I'm sure the same is true the world over, particularly in cities.

The last major trend that I can think of was when Lance won the 1999 tour and Trek saw massive sales increases throughout Europe. Everywhere I looked, there was a Trek being ridden. They had clearly done their distribution homework.

I find this whole area very interesting but it's always been very difficult to obtain something as simple as a bicycle manufacturer's yearbook, or similar. Now there's an idea.

The Bicycle Retailer is an interesting site which I stumbled upon the other day, which I hope will become more and more useful over time - http://www.bicycleretailer.com/

Tim

verktyg

Tim,

There are not many bikes presently being "made in the USA". The lion's share are coming from China and Taiwan. There has been a resurgence of interest in custom built bikes, also custom assembled bikes using mass produced high tech frames or high quality steel frames from the likes of Waterford, Serotta and several Italian builders.

During the first half of the 1970s, Campy components were hard to come by. We used to buy Campy equipped low end Italian bikes just for the components. For example we could get a full Campy Bottecchia bike for around $300 USD. An unassembled Campy gruppo cost that much wholesale sans rims, spokes and tires.

We'd strip the Campy components to put on better quality English or Italian frames and still have a frame we could sell for ~$100-150 USD.

In the mid 70s Shimano started out in pursuit of Campy with their first Dura-Ace gruppos. Dura-ace was about the same price and quality as Campy but it gave riders another choice.

Chas.

Gtane

Chas,

I like the fact that steel is on the up, here too.

It's most likely then, that China and Taiwan now make the majority of the world's bicycles for export. China and India have been at the top of the tree regards domestic bicycle numbers but that too is changing although it's likely they will remain there for many years to come. Of course, both countries continue to use steel as their number one bike material.

It's very interesting to hear component costs and they were certainly expensive, as you mentioned. In the UK too. Clever ideas regards the low end Italian bikes.

Thanks again

Tim

verktyg

Gtane

Chas,

Even now, there is considerable new old stock in the market from the mid to late '80s. So that might tie in. As we know, items are considerably more than $300 for the group. More like $300 for a single item, possibly a pair of something. I don't see much NOS or secondhand Victory or Triomphe however. These are two groups which now seem to be quite rare.

I feel that there will be fewer components in the future from the current period as everything seems to be disposable to many. But the saving grace could be the old saying - one person's rubbish is another person's treasure, etc, etc. Too much is just thrown away nowadays without a further thought and it was just not like that even in the '80s, certainly not before.

You're right about the workshops of the manufacturers, they were very hands on but that's, as we know, true craftsmanship. It must have been very tough to have met demand in the '70s when manufacturing techniques were not at the mass production levels of today. Turning out even 100 steel frames quickly from a quality manufacturer was a task in itself, but then it still is today.

Keep your eyes peeled for that replacement C&^%"$o!

Thanks again

Tim