gitaneusa.com Forum Index » Vintage Gitane » A new member with a cool gitane Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next    View previous topic :: View next topic    Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:32 am Gtane Joined: 14 Sep 2007 Posts: 681 Location: UK Chas, That drilled machine really is a work of art. Perhaps this is something that might make a return. I wonder, could we see drilled carbon fibre components, on a carbon frame? Tim _________________ Everything has a cycle   Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:47 am Gtane Joined: 14 Sep 2007 Posts: 681 Location: UK Here's a Gitane for sale and is branded with RMO on the frame, it also has a Mavic groupset; http://www.leboncoin.fr/vi/28473529.htm?ca=7_s Tim _________________ Everything has a cycle   Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:19 am verktyg Joined: 14 Jan 2007 Posts: 2814 Location: SF Bay Area Gtane wrote: Chas, That drilled machine really is a work of art. Perhaps this is something that might make a return. I wonder, could we see drilled carbon fibre components, on a carbon frame? Tim I can just hear a drillium carbon fiber reinforced composite bike going down the road sounding like a flute ensemble! Catastrophic failure in CFRC (carbon) is unpredictable enough without putting in more holes. Besides the stuff is so abrasive that it requires diamond tipped or coated tools to cut it. A friend that I ride with also races sailboats. He tells of witnessing a CFRC sailboat break in half and sink while anchored at the San Diego Yacht Club. Chas.   Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:38 am verktyg Joined: 14 Jan 2007 Posts: 2814 Location: SF Bay Area Paul Wiseman wrote: I am saddened that the mechanical side of the sport has changed so much. Without doubt, we have better equipment at more affordable process. However, change and innovation is now something that you "purchase" rather than something you "do". Innovation still happens, but it happens inside CAD programs and wind tunnels. It no longer happens in a 15 year old boy's garage. A number of the same folks that got carried away with drillium also went on to be innovators in the bicycle industry. Peter Johnson, Tom Ritchie and several others went to high school together or were from the same local in the San Francisco Bay Area. They started doing drillium when they were teenagers. They were also pretty active Junior Class road racers. More drillium (scroll down to "Drillium Info") http://www.tearsforgears.com/search/label/drillium and... too much of a good thing is not always better! http://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/v/Wayne-Bingham/Drillium/ Chas. Holey Cow!   Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:18 pm Paul Wiseman Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 584 Location: Brisbane, Australia sandranian wrote: Why would you need tight geometry on a TT machine? I get pulling the back wheel in, but why such a squirrely front end? I guess having the distances shorter for most TTs, you wouldn't need comfort. But you also wouldn't need an especially nimble machine, would you? I think it partly came about from the track. Teams pursuit and road teams time trial had closer links back then when all road riders rode the track as well. Now they have become almost two different sports. In the teams pursuit, one theory was to shorten the length of each bike in order to make the whole teams shorter and thus more aerodynamic (I have my doubts as to the validity of the aere theory, but it might have helped with swapping off). This finally ended with the use of funny bikes with 24" front wheels. Remember the bikes used by the USA in the TP at LA84? This one is hanging in Yamaguci's workshop. Hmmmm... Of course it is important to remember that despite the USA having rubberized skinsuits, aero helmets, funny bikes and disc wheels, they got flogged by the Aussies on standard machines and spoked wheels........ bet they had some drillium too! _________________ Wisey Brisbane, Australia 1974 Paris - Nice 1985 Defi 1985 Victoire 1985 Victoire (yes, another one!) 1985 Professionnel   Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:25 pm Paul Wiseman Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 584 Location: Brisbane, Australia Gtane wrote: Chas, That drilled machine really is a work of art. Perhaps this is something that might make a return. I wonder, could we see drilled carbon fibre components, on a carbon frame? Tim Here ya go Although, I think it would be moulded rather than drilled. Does that make it mouldium? _________________ Wisey Brisbane, Australia 1974 Paris - Nice 1985 Defi 1985 Victoire 1985 Victoire (yes, another one!) 1985 Professionnel   Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:47 pm sandranian Site Admin Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 2701 Location: Southern California They used to do that with Derny racing as well (the short front wheelbase), and designed bikes with forks turned backwards in order to get closer to the derny to draft. Again...why, on a 50 mile individual TT, would you want track geometry? Why would you want it on a 20 mile TT? It just doesn't make sense, specially because the courses would not (most likely) be technical.... _________________ Stephan Andranian Costa Mesa, CA www.gitaneusa.com Penny whistles...   Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:51 pm verktyg Joined: 14 Jan 2007 Posts: 2814 Location: SF Bay Area One of my bikes makes a whistling noise coming from the front half especially when there is a head wind from the left. It's been driving me nuts trying to find the source. Next thing is to start taping over all of the components one by one. If would be OK if it were whistling Yankee Doodle but Rule Britania and La Marseillaise are too much but when Scotland the Brave kicks in.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63o8exNK4-Q&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4K1q9Ntcr5g http://tinyurl.com/7jxbkn Yay Braveheart! Chas.   Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:00 pm Gtane Joined: 14 Sep 2007 Posts: 681 Location: UK Chas, LOL Surely it depends on the nationality of your machine, then again perhaps it does by reeling off the various whistled anthems for each component too, as the machine winds its way off a lengthy mountain pass. Tim _________________ Everything has a cycle   Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:08 pm Gtane Joined: 14 Sep 2007 Posts: 681 Location: UK Paul Wiseman wrote: Gtane wrote: Chas, That drilled machine really is a work of art. Perhaps this is something that might make a return. I wonder, could we see drilled carbon fibre components, on a carbon frame? Tim Here ya go Although, I think it would be moulded rather than drilled. Does that make it mouldium? [img]http: //www.postimage.org/gx2nW7V0.jpg[/img] Wisey, Of course, the new Super Record. Thanks for the prompt. So it's here. Chas, ...and for handlebars from the great Alf Engers - http://bikebrothers.co.uk/engers_files/bars/alfs3.jpg Tim _________________ Everything has a cycle   Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:21 pm Gtane Joined: 14 Sep 2007 Posts: 681 Location: UK sandranian wrote: They used to do that with Derny racing as well (the short front wheelbase), and designed bikes with forks turned backwards in order to get closer to the derny to draft. Again...why, on a 50 mile individual TT, would you want track geometry? Why would you want it on a 20 mile TT? It just doesn't make sense, specially because the courses would not (most likely) be technical.... Stephan, The rules now dictate so much regards length, weight, height, saddle position, bar height and position, etc, etc. It was never like this to the same degree in times gone by. If these rules were not in place we would see more radical designs and probably a continuation of compact wheelbase frames. You'll notice that many TT machines now have a front wheel much further forwards with a move away from parallel angles on some machines. Much bicycle design innovation was restricted after Graeme Obree's creations, and track and TT successes, of the early '90s and earlier. Regards why, well, for me it was all power to the road and responsiveness, as well as an eagle eye on your peers' machines. I've ridden a few TTs and to ride a bike that's not lively made me feel slower. I wanted to be on top of the bike driving it forwards to the line. Any feeling of slackness, heaviness or one of not being in total control for the goal, I tried to eradicate in the garage. Tim _________________ Everything has a cycle   Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:24 pm sandranian Site Admin Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 2701 Location: Southern California Sure...and I know about the new restrictions, but that isn't what we are talking about. I would think that getting beaten up over a long TT on a bike with "track" geometry would eventually kill someone. Anquetil, one of the best TTers of all time, used a slack bike, as did Hinault... But I guess a lot of it is voodoo, so that might explain it as well. _________________ Stephan Andranian Costa Mesa, CA www.gitaneusa.com   Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 7:49 pm vanhelmont Joined: 11 Dec 2007 Posts: 242 Location: Florida Tim says: "... then again perhaps it does by reeling off the various whistled anthems for each component too," The sound form a Chorus gruppo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RS8KdQi1GRk Chas, if you still had your Cyclone derailleur, you might hear this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbsrYkBpGr0 Dave   Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:36 pm Paul Wiseman Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 584 Location: Brisbane, Australia sandranian wrote: Again...why, on a 50 mile individual TT, would you want track geometry? Why would you want it on a 20 mile TT? It just doesn't make sense, specially because the courses would not (most likely) be technical.... I agree with you totally. Even today, most of the carbon TT bikes have a tight front end. Aerodynamics aside, the tight rear end is a really bad idea, as the 10 speed drive trains work so much better with a longer rear end. The crossover on the chains is terrible with some of these TT bikes and causes a lot of friction in the drive train. I think it has mostly to do with how things look. It seems to be far more important to 'look' fast than it is to 'be' fast. As an example we carry one of the modern lines of aero helmet. The particulat brand does 2 models, a shoet aero, and a long tail aero. The test specs show that the shorter helmet is the faster of the two, but we can't sell one, whereas the long one sells like hotcakes. The desing of modern TT bikes is just terrible. Many of them still have steep seat angles which has been proved to be a bad idea time and time again. The Front end geo is all screwed because they want a slack head angle to make the top tube shorter, but this kicks the front wheel out too far for the 'fast look' they want so the make an integrated fork with deep aero sections so they can bring the front tips backward in relation to the steerer tube (= a straight track fork). Then the handle bar position is all wrong. They are designed so the aero bars are roughly in the right place, but they have to be mounted on one of these 'fast' looking base bars (bull horns). But the hand position ends up being about the height of you brake lever hood on your road bike but set back about 10cm. So now you have this ultra short, too high position on a bike that handles like 3 legged donkey. This is why we see pro's falling off TT bikes, and why excellent bike handlers like Cadel Evans had to go slow on the descent in the first TT in last years Tour. Does anyone ever remember Merckx, Hinault, LeMond, Fignon, Kelly or anyone else falling off in a TT? Poor design, crap bike, but damn they look fast! OK, rant over. Have a good TT everyone. p.s. My TT bike is a 54cm road frame kitted out as a TT bike. Works just fine and is quite comfortable to ride. (I normally rida a 59cm) _________________ Wisey Brisbane, Australia 1974 Paris - Nice 1985 Defi 1985 Victoire 1985 Victoire (yes, another one!) 1985 Professionnel   Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:43 pm Paul Wiseman Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 584 Location: Brisbane, Australia Speaking of TT bikes, has anyone seen this before? _________________ Wisey Brisbane, Australia 1974 Paris - Nice 1985 Defi 1985 Victoire 1985 Victoire (yes, another one!) 1985 Professionnel A new member with a cool gitane     gitaneusa.com Forum Index » Vintage Gitane You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum All times are GMT - 8 Hours   Page 3 of 4   Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First  Select a forum Gitane USA----------------Vintage GitaneGitane RacingModern GitanePro Racing - Classics/Giro/Tour....Owner Gallery   Powered by phpBB © 2001-2004 phpBB Group Designed for Trushkin.net | Themes Database.