gitaneusa.com Forum Index » Vintage Gitane » What's this odd one on eBay France??? Goto page 1, 2  Next    View previous topic :: View next topic  What's this odd one on eBay France???   Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:19 am greyhundguy Joined: 09 Apr 2008 Posts: 678 Location: South-Central VIRGINIA I can't quite figure it out. eBay France item: http://cgi.ebay.fr/Cadre-velo-Gitane-Service-Course-ideal-fixie-SS_W0QQitemZ160362638503QQcmdZViewItemQQptZFR_JG_Sports_Cyclisme_?hash=item25565baca7&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14 Jay _________________ Dance like nobody is watching.   Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:31 am sandranian Site Admin Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 2701 Location: Southern California That IS an oddball. Obviously, the Shimano decal was added. I wonder if the World Champion stripes were added as well...but they do have the look of the old transfers.... Unfortunately, there is no indication of tubing, but I am sure it is Reynolds 531 because of the use of simplex dropouts. _________________ Stephan Andranian Costa Mesa, CA www.gitaneusa.com Old Repainted TdF on French eBay?   Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:28 am verktyg Joined: 14 Jan 2007 Posts: 2814 Location: SF Bay Area My guess is that it's an early 70s TdF or similar European model that's been repainted. Replacement Gitane foil decals were probably more readily available in France than the US. It has Bocama short point lugs and a Nervex DuBois crown which would place it around 1972 or 73, maybe even early 74. The paint treatment on the right chainstay with a section of chrome showing was only seen on very high end Italian frames. It didn't appear until at least the mid 70s. I've never seen a Gitane with that treatment. They chrome plated part of both the chain and seat stays. The red and black "Hand Made" sticker should be on the seat tube. World champion bands like these weren't used on production Gitanes and as Stephan said, the Shimano 600 sticker was a later addition. It has a Super Corsa fork decal. I've seen these on early 70s TdFs and Interclubs before. The Simplex rear dropout has been modified to take a standard Campy style derailleur. One other thing that I noticed, the seatstay and chainstay ends are "domed" rather than the "fishtail" cut that was used on TdFs and Super Corsas. That would suggest that maybe the rear stays are made of something other than Reynolds 531 tubing. EDIT NOTE: Hmm, I just noticed that these Simplex dropouts have adjuster screws! Chas. (notice all the carefully parsed "weasel words" I use when discussing French bikes) Last edited by verktyg on Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:41 pm; edited 2 times in total   Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:55 am sandranian Site Admin Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 2701 Location: Southern California Also noticed that there is no rear brake cable-stop bridge, as was standard for Gitane in the early 1970's. Perhaps it isn't a Gitane at all, and someone just added the transfers? Unlikely, but possible... _________________ Stephan Andranian Costa Mesa, CA www.gitaneusa.com   Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:33 am verktyg Joined: 14 Jan 2007 Posts: 2814 Location: SF Bay Area sandranian wrote: Also noticed that there is no rear brake cable-stop bridge, as was standard for Gitane in the early 1970's. Gitane stopped putting those on in the early 70s, probably around the time they switched to Bocama lugs. Same thing for the willow leaf seat stay caps. They were probably a cost cutting move. Here's my 1971 TdF with the swaged over seatstay tops plus the brake cable stop bridge. sandranian wrote: Perhaps it isn't a Gitane at all, and someone just added the transfers? Unlikely, but possible... I thought the same thing myself but it looks like it has Gitane swaged seatstay tops. Chas. Last edited by verktyg on Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:40 am; edited 1 time in total   Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:18 am giz404 Joined: 29 Sep 2009 Posts: 3 Location: Strasbourg, France Hi ! I'm a newcomer on GitaneUSA. I just bought the frame we're talking about here... and I have trouble identifying it. I took some more photos of it : http://www.flickr.com/photos/giz404/sets/72157622466356572/ And I have a few more info, which may help you identifying the frame : - it weighs about 2,6 kg (5.73lbs), and the fork weighs 840g (1.85 lbs) - the chrome on the right chainstay is fake : in fact, it is just a sticker. - the sticker "Shimano 600" is obviously more recent than the frame. Don't hesitate to request more photos if any details could help you determining which model it is... I posted it on a french forum too. Some persons suggested it could simply be another brand, rebadged as a Gitane (the decals are available on Cyclomondo on Ebay, so one of the previous owner could have bought some...) It bears some resemblances with the 1977 Peugeot PRN 10... (image courtesy of http://retropeugeot.com/) http://img2.imageshack.us/i/img2128w.jpg/ (please excuse my rather poor english - I'm French)   Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 3:30 am sandranian Site Admin Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 2701 Location: Southern California Welcome to the site, and thanks for posting this to keep this mystery alive! I have a very hard time believing that someone would go through the trouble of removing all of those Peugeot decals, just to add Gitane ones. Also, I am not really sure that Gitane decals were even available to the general public at that time, but maybe Chas. can enlighten us on that topic. I don't think those are Cyclomondo decals: The weathering is too authentic, and close inspection reveals them to be slightly different. The DT Spokes and Shimano decals are surely added by a subsequent owner and not original with that bike. The fact that the chrome chain stay treatment is a decal rather than actual chrome certainly answers at least one huge question. The orange color looks to be Gitane Orange from the 1970's...did Peugeot have the same orange color available? [Edit: the original post answered the "orange color" question! oops!] Last edited by sandranian on Wed Sep 30, 2009 4:22 am; edited 1 time in total _________________ Stephan Andranian Costa Mesa, CA www.gitaneusa.com   Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 4:03 am greyhundguy Joined: 09 Apr 2008 Posts: 678 Location: South-Central VIRGINIA Three things I note: 1. The "Hand Made" sticker is in French so it would be an original. It should be high on the seat tube though. 2. There is no braze-on stop for the shift levers on the down tube. 3. It looks like parts of a Gitane decal on the right side of the fork below the crown. Can you post photos of both sides of the fork? Jay _________________ Dance like nobody is watching.   Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 4:11 am sandranian Site Admin Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 2701 Location: Southern California I missed the braze on shift lever stop...good eye! This is a good one, eh? Perhaps a "France only" model? The catalogues offer some options, but the photos and descriptions aren't very detailed: 1973 Catalogue: Tour de France/3 http://www.gitaneusa.com/images/catalog/1973/FR_1973_01.jpg The bike has no rear brake cable bridge and the rear dropout at least appears similar. It looks like the same fork crown, and the "wreath" decal on the fork itself (instead of the typical tour de france decal). Regarding the decals, I seem to recall that Peugeot used water transfers under clear coat, not stickers like Gitane. Therefore, wouldn't it have been impossible to remove the Peugeot decals from a bike of this era? Am I wrong about that (water transfer use)? _________________ Stephan Andranian Costa Mesa, CA www.gitaneusa.com   Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 4:28 am greyhundguy Joined: 09 Apr 2008 Posts: 678 Location: South-Central VIRGINIA The '73 catalog seems to show the fork decal that resembles the Super Cosra. Also, it says 3 tubes Reynolds. It could be that the Shimano decal is covering that on the down tube. It will be interesting to see if there are remains of one on the left side fork. Making more sense that it is a '73 European TdF. Jay _________________ Dance like nobody is watching. Sacrilege - un Peugeot dans notre secteur   Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:21 am verktyg Joined: 14 Jan 2007 Posts: 2814 Location: SF Bay Area sandranian wrote: I have a very hard time believing that someone would go through the trouble of removing all of those Peugeot decals, just to add Gitane ones. Also, I am not really sure that Gitane decals were even available to the general public at that time, but maybe Chas. can enlighten us on that topic. I don't think those are Cyclomondo decals: The weathering is too authentic, and close inspection reveals them to be slightly different. The DT Spokes and Shimano decals are surely added by a subsequent owner and not original with that bike. Back OT, the Mylar silver foil Gitane decals that were used on the better quality bikes were not available in the US. The red or blue decals that came on Gran Sport bikes were free for the asking since so many bikes came in with damaged decals. It was probably cheaper for Gitane to give out stacks of decals than take the time to carefully pack the bikes at the factory! sandranian wrote: The fact that the chrome chain stay treatment is a decal rather than actual chrome certainly answers at least one huge question. I thought that the right chainstay was chrome plated. That's an interesting possibility that it's a Mylar foil chainstay protector. To answer Jay's comment, occasionally I saw the Super Corsa right fork decal on Interclubs and TdFs. Same thing with TdF decals. Here's a picture of a European model frame that was on eBay a while back. It had Huret dropouts with an integral derailleur hanger. It took a small diameter seatpost so it wasn't made with better quality tubing. My guess was that it was a Tour De Lavenir from around 1973. The French bike makers had dozens of models for the European market that never made it to the States including full Reynolds 531 frames with cheap Huret Alvit derailleurs! Chas. Last edited by verktyg on Thu Oct 01, 2009 1:21 pm; edited 1 time in total   Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:12 pm Wisey Joined: 19 May 2009 Posts: 631 Location: Brisbane, Australia [quote="sandranian"]I don't think those are Cyclomondo decals: The weathering is too authentic,[quote] Check this for weathering. Here is a close up of the DT decal on my latest find: It's an 84 Grand Tour. Very weathered............. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ........ actually it is an extra cyclemondo decal that I put on the back of my phone as the missus and I have the same phone and constantly mixed them up. The moral of the story is this: If someone has an old gitane with genuine patina, but the decals have been removed, it should be fairly easy (if labour intensive) to "prepare" or 'weather" a set of cyclemondo decals to complete the authentic look. _________________ Kind Regards, Wisey Delta Dreamin'   Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:16 pm giz404 Joined: 29 Sep 2009 Posts: 3 Location: Strasbourg, France I will post more photos of the frame this week end... Does anyone know the RAL code of the color ?   Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:29 pm sandranian Site Admin Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 2701 Location: Southern California Wisey wrote: The moral of the story is this: If someone has an old gitane with genuine patina, but the decals have been removed, it should be fairly easy (if labour intensive) to "prepare" or 'weather" a set of cyclemondo decals to complete the authentic look. Yeah...but how do you fit the frame with the decals on it in your pocket? _________________ Stephan Andranian Costa Mesa, CA www.gitaneusa.com   Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 2:04 pm Wisey Joined: 19 May 2009 Posts: 631 Location: Brisbane, Australia Is that a Gitane in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me? _________________ Kind Regards, Wisey Delta Dreamin' What's this odd one on eBay France???     gitaneusa.com Forum Index » Vintage Gitane You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum All times are GMT - 8 Hours   Page 1 of 2   Goto page 1, 2  Next All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First  Select a forum Gitane USA----------------Vintage GitaneGitane RacingModern GitanePro Racing - Classics/Giro/Tour....Owner Gallery   Powered by phpBB © 2001-2004 phpBB Group Designed for Trushkin.net | Themes Database.