gitaneusa.com Forum Index » Vintage Gitane » New to site. Bottom bracket question '77 Newport    View previous topic :: View next topic  New to site. Bottom bracket question '77 Newport   Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 7:58 am e39540is Joined: 08 Oct 2009 Posts: 6 Location: Iowa Hello All, I just bought my first Gitane, and I am getting it back into shape. From the catalog scans, it looks to be a 1977 Newport. Although it is not a high end Gitane, I like it. It rides great, and has room for fat tires and fenders, which I hope to be getting for it soon. My question is the bottom bracket. Is it French thread or English? I dont know if you can tell from looking while it is still in the bike, but here is a description of what I can see. On the non-drive side there is a lock ring, and where the lock ring threads on (I assume is the cup) has to notches in it. On the drive side, it is all round except for two flat spots, kinda like would be on a hub cone but bigger. The crank looks to be a Sugino, and it says Maxy on the arms (as well as Gitane). Can anyone tell my the year, and model, or my description what bottom bracket threads it would have? Thanks, Sean Des Moines, Iowa   Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 3:30 pm greyhundguy Joined: 09 Apr 2008 Posts: 678 Location: South-Central VIRGINIA Sean, You may have to pull off the crank arms to determine it. I have a '75 with the Sugino and the BB is French thread. It will be marked 35 x 1, 35 x P1 or 35 x 100 for French on the face of the cup. If you get a flashlight and magnifier you may be able to see it on one or both of the cups without removing the crank arms. Mine are marked on both. Jay _________________ Dance like nobody is watching.   Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 6:10 pm e39540is Joined: 08 Oct 2009 Posts: 6 Location: Iowa Well, I cleaned off the surfaces of the BB, and I did not see any markings at all. I am hoping it is not French threading, or at the least the BB just needs new balls, and repacked. I hope the cups and the spindle are in good condition. Right now when upside down if you turn the crank really slow, you can hear a ball drop from time to time, so I dont think there is much grease in there. I have a sneaking suspicion that it is french though, because on the drive side there is a slight gap in between the bb shell, and the fixed cup. Wouldnt that signify a french BB?   Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:25 pm verktyg Joined: 14 Jan 2007 Posts: 2814 Location: SF Bay Area e39540is wrote: I have a sneaking suspicion that it is french though, because on the drive side there is a slight gap in between the bb shell, and the fixed cup. Wouldnt that signify a french BB? Sacre bleu French treads on bikes have standard ISO metric thread forms not the batard obsolete Brit treads that were adopted by the ISO for bicycle bottom brackets, headsets and pedals. All of the other threads on the bike are standard ISO metric! Fractional portions of a long dead Brit king's foot, frequently decimalised for most practical applications outside of woodworking. The US is one of only 3 nations in the world that still use the Imperial standard for measurements, the other 2 are 4th world nations! That rant said you can still find metric BB cups to fit French threaded BBs and spindles to fit Sugino Maxi cranks. If you walk into a bike shop and mention French and see the employee's eyes glaze over or the deer in the headlights look, slowly back out the door and ride away as fast as possible. As far as the gap between either of the cups and the bottom bracket shell, there's not supposed to be any gap. The BB shell was not properly faced off which can easily be remedied if you can find a shop with a bottom bracket facing tool that fits a French BB. There is one other possibility: some ham fisted hammer mechanic may have crossed threaded a British cup with left hand threads into the BB (standard French fixed cups have right hand threads). In either case, you can service both sides without having to remove the fixed right side cup. It's a little more work but if the cup is OK you may be better off leaving it in place if you don't have the proper tools or experience to remove it. Good Luck and have fun. Let's see some pictures. Chas. the Forum troll...   Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:15 am sandranian Site Admin Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 2701 Location: Southern California You will know that it is french threaded if the fixed cup is a standard "righty tighty" (i.e. not reverse threaded)...technically speaking. Chas...I didn't even understand 1/2 of your post. Too much techno speak for me. And if the USA is the only country to do something...it just means that all of the other countries are wrong. Kicked some people's arses on my 1987 this morning on the group ride. Hilarious, specially when people asked how much it weighed (response was "I don't know"). 12 speed, straight 12-17 block. Great. _________________ Stephan Andranian Costa Mesa, CA www.gitaneusa.com Batard size threads   Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:33 am verktyg Joined: 14 Jan 2007 Posts: 2814 Location: SF Bay Area sandranian wrote: Chas...I didn't even understand 1/2 of your post. Too much techno speak for me. ...and you understand legal speak??? Translation: Batard = Polite French word for illegitimate offspring (bastard child). Referring to a "bastard size" which is something mechanical that is non standard. In the case of ISO (International Standards Organization) bicycle threads, the obsolete BSC (British Standard Cycle) threads were adopted as the world standard instead of going metric. Imperial System of Measurements = e.g. feet, inches, miles, pounds, ounces and so on. Formerly in use throughout the most of the English speaking nations. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_units Fractional portions of a dead Brit (British) king's foot = 1/64", 1/32", 1/16", 1/8", 1/4", 1/2" and so on. It was said a foot was the length of the British monarch's 'foot'. Actually the term 'foot' came from something else but it makes for a good rant! Decimalisation = converting fractional sizes to decimals (a 10 base system) e.g. 1/4" = .250, 1/2" =.500, 1 1/4" = 1.250 and so on. With the exception of woodworking, plumbing, sheet metal and some other non exact trades, fractional sizes are usually converted to decimal sizes for manufacturing purposes. The metric standard requires no conversion, it's already a 10 base system: 0.01mm, 0.10mm, 10mm, 10.5mm, 25.4mm (1"). The new ISO standards based on the old obsolete British standards affect bottom bracket threads, headset threads, pedal threads, freewheel threads and stem diameter. All other treaded parts on a modern bike are or should standard metric thread. I've been dealing with these issues in manufacturing for the past 30 years. Before that, when I worked as a mechanic, I had 3 sets of tools, inch, metric and British Whitworth. My humor gland malfunctions when I encounter "fear of metrics". sandranian wrote: And if the USA is the only country to do something...it just means that all of the other countries are wrong. If a man stands alone in the woods with no women near by is he still wrong? It's great to be part of an exclusive club: The US, Burma and Liberia! sandranian wrote: Kicked some people's arses on my 1987 this morning on the group ride. Hilarious, specially when people asked how much it weighed (response was "I don't know"). 12 speed, straight 12-17 block. Great. Who's that old guy off the front? Why it's the lone ranger... (I know, before your time) Arcane Chas.   Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:41 am sandranian Site Admin Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 2701 Location: Southern California Liberia is an interesting case study, certainly with regards to the reparations debate. Burma? You are dating yourself. It is now known as "Myanmar". We've hijacked this thread (no pun intended)! _________________ Stephan Andranian Costa Mesa, CA www.gitaneusa.com   Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:13 pm verktyg Joined: 14 Jan 2007 Posts: 2814 Location: SF Bay Area sandranian wrote: We've hijacked this thread (no pun intended)! I'll go back in a delete or edit my educational diatribe. Chas.   Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:55 pm sandranian Site Admin Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 2701 Location: Southern California Chas...you are barred from deleting anything! _________________ Stephan Andranian Costa Mesa, CA www.gitaneusa.com Sugino Maxi Bottom Bracket   Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:11 am verktyg Joined: 14 Jan 2007 Posts: 2814 Location: SF Bay Area Sean, There is a local 'bike junk yard' that has several dozen of these Sugino Maxi bottom bracket spindles. I can send you a spindle and maybe cups at my cost if you need to replace yours. Note, the grinds in the bearing tracks on these parts were pretty crude to begin with so a few light pits about pin head size aren't going to hurt anything. Chas. Re: Sugino Maxi Bottom Bracket   Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:03 am e39540is Joined: 08 Oct 2009 Posts: 6 Location: Iowa verktyg wrote: Sean, There is a local 'bike junk yard' that has several dozen of these Sugino Maxi bottom bracket spindles. I can send you a spindle and maybe cups at my cost if you need to replace yours. Note, the grinds in the bearing tracks on these parts were pretty crude to begin with so a few light pits about pin head size aren't going to hurt anything. Chas. That would be great! I was worried about taking it apart, and not having parts, so now at least I know I can get them, so I should get it apart one of these days. Is it true that the cups, and spindle wear out before the balls? Pictures   Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:13 am e39540is Joined: 08 Oct 2009 Posts: 6 Location: Iowa Ok, sorry the pictures took so long. The first pic is from the the before pic taken from the previous owner. The second pic is what it looks like in its current state. The orig handle bars bent up from the stem out, and they where very narrow, and uncomfortable, so they had to go. Now it has new bars, stem, aero brake levers, downtube shifters, new derailleur cables, alum wheel, w/6sp freewheel. I have removed the chainguard off the crank, as well as all the reflectors. The aero brake levers look out of place, so I might put the origonals back on.... Have not decided on that one yet..?? Asian Built Gitane   Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:44 am verktyg Joined: 14 Jan 2007 Posts: 2814 Location: SF Bay Area I can tell buy the lugs that this is one of the Asian built Gitanes. It most likely has BSC - British threads. If a standard 22.2mm diameter stem fit into the steering to that would indicate that it has all "standard" size components. Many times the cups and spindles on less expensive bottom brackets were case hardened. They were made with a zone of 62 Rc hardened steel .010" to .050" thick. More expensive components were hardened all the way through. With case hardened parts the ball bearings are harder than the cups and spindles. They frequently wear through the thin hardened zone. Same thing happens in headsets. If you need a new BB you can probably find a sealed bearing unit for $15-$20 which would eliminate repacking the BB. Chas.   Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:08 am e39540is Joined: 08 Oct 2009 Posts: 6 Location: Iowa Well that is kinda disappointing. I guess I assumed that the frame would have been made in France. I have nothing against Asian frames, I just figured being a Gitane, it would be French. On the other hand I was hoping that it had english threads though. I am glad that you mentioned the stem, I forgot about that, and was meaning to ask. I would have reused the old stem, but the other bars I had around would not fit, they where too big around. The old stem said 22.2 on it, but measured 22.02. The new stem, a Sakae Custom, measured 22.04, but there is a visible gap where it slides into the stem. I dont see how that can be that the orig stem is smaller then the new one, but the new one is kinda loose when sliding it in. It tightened up no problem though, and feels solid. Is that unsafe?   Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:40 am sandranian Site Admin Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 2701 Location: Southern California In (at least) 1977, Gitane Pacific (the US distributor) imported the majority of Gitane-labeled bicycles from Asia. Chas. knows the history best, but the Gitane's available in the 1977 catalogue were Asian (with the exception of the Interclub). _________________ Stephan Andranian Costa Mesa, CA www.gitaneusa.com New to site. 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