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sandranian · Site Admin

Recently, I was taken to task by a Classic Rendezvous list member for making reference to the crime committed by Jacques Boyer on the GitaneUSA site while not referencing "crimes" allegedly committed by Anquetil and Fignon.

I am interested in knowing the opinions of the people here, as I value your opinions. I would not ask you without posting my own opinion on the matter, so here it is.

First and foremost, here is what it says on the site:
"Along with the French riders, Guimard did the unheard of: He went to the USA to hire bicycle riders. The first, Jonathan Boyer, led the way as the first cyclist from the USA to ride in the Tour de France (his subsequent history, though, makes it difficult even to include his name on this site...but he did what he did at the time)."
Source: http://gitaneusa.com/racing.asp

I wrote that...and didn't want to mention his specific crimes, which I personally find abhorrent. Here is what the Boyer did:

http://www.velonews.com/article/9354

http://www.meganslaw.ca.gov/cgi/prosoma.dll?searchby=offender&id=18603072H7196
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As for Jacques Anquetil, here is what he did:

"Anquetil married Janine Boeda on 22 December 1958. She had been married to Anquetil's doctor. The doctor, seeing a rival, sent his wife to live with friends.[26] Anquetil went to see her, disguised as a plumber[26], and took her off to Paris to buy clothes in the Rue du Faubourg Saint-Honoré.[26]

Their marriage produced no children. Janine had two children, Alain and Annie, from her previous marriage. In 2004, Sophie Anquetil published the book Pour l'amour de Jacques in which she confirmed what had been rumoured but what Anquetil had always tried to hide[26]: that she was Anquetil's daughter.

Janine had two failed pregnancies and Anquetil grew upset in 1970 that he wasn't a father.[26] The couple considered a surrogate mother before Janine thought of her daughter, Annie. Janine said: "We didn't use the parental authority that we could have had over her. It was a request that I addressed to her. Gently. Annie always had the choice of refusing."[n 3] Annie confirmed her mother's recollection.[26] She said:
“ When my mother asked that [I should become impregnated by my step-father, Anquetil].... I was totally breathtaken by the proposition.... But, mind, I accepted willingly. I have to admit that at the time, despite being 18 years old, I was in love with Jacques. And I knew that I pleased him. What do you expect? That's life. And that's how I found myself in his bed in the sacred mission of procreation.[26] ”

Anquetil, his wife and his wife's daughter began a ménage à trois[27] Annie said:
“ "Nobody thought it strange that Jacques Anquetil joined me in my bed each evening before returning to the marital bed beside my mother. Everybody was comfortable with it [Tout le monde était à l'aise]."[26] ”

Annie said she should have left the house after her daughter, Sophie, was born. Instead, she grew jealous of her own mother and demanded that she leave instead.[26] When Janine refused, Annie left instead. To fill the gap in the house, Janine invited her son, Alain, and his wife, Dominique, to return to live there. Anquetil began an affair with Dominique, to make Annie jealous.[26] Dominique had Anquetil's child but Annie still refused to return.

Dominique still lives in the house, Les Elfes, where she organises conferences. [26] Janine and Anquetil divorced. Sophie moved in with Janine, although she lives now in Calenzana, near Calvi.[26]

Both Janine and Dominique wrote their life story: neither mentioned the link between Sophie and Anquetil.[26]"

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Anquetil
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Fignon has admitted doping.

Source: http://www.velonews.com/article/93220

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The critique of the website is that I mention Boyer's crime, but omit Anquetil's and Fignon's discretions.

Personally, I don't think they compare. Boyer is an admitted and convicted child molester and currently a registered sex offender in the state of California. The victim of his crime was a child who alleged that Boyer started molesting her when she was 11. Boyer pled guilty to the charges.

Anquetil had consensual sex with his step-daughter and then later had an affair and married his wife's sons wife. Wow. Sick? Yes. Twisted? Sure. But not illegal, and all were over 18 years of age. So who was the victim in this circumstance? Probably his offspring and all of the adults...but there was no rape to speak of here.

Fignon cheated. But so did many if not all of his contemporaries. Quite frankly, I don't really want to discuss doping in depth here, but should note that it is, in fact, a "crime of moral turpitude". However, it is cheating, and at most, it costs people (competitors/sponsors) money. It may have cost Fignon himself his life.

So the question is, are all of the above "crimes" equal? Is cheating in sport (ala Fignon) equal to child molestation (ala Boyer)? I would say no. Is Anquetil's sordid and downright bizarre personal relationships with the women in his life the same as molesting an 11 year old? I would also argue that it is not.

So that is where we are. If I am wrong, let me know.

lofter

verktyg

Counselor, these are issues related to cultural mores. I've lived in a lot of multicultural settings and had a lot of cross cultural training so I tend to look at things a lot differently than many other folks.

In the US having contact of a sexual nature with someone under the age of consent is considered a serious crime, more so socially than in the legal system: for example,"Boyer pleaded guilty to 10 felony counts of child molestation and was only sentenced to one year in jail and five years probation."

"Short Eyes", those in the US prison system convicted of child molestation charges usually get out of jail after short sentences and go on to become repeat offenders.

Boyer is trying to get out of his probation early which is one of the few ways of keeping track of these offenders.

In certain cultures when girls reach the age of puberty they're considered fair game. When I lived in New Mexico in the 1970s the age of consent was 13. The age of consent laws were in place because it was a cultural thing among rural Hispanics where older men sought out young girls who they could support better than a young man in the eyes of the Hispanic culture (the age of consent in NM is now 16 or 17 depending on the circumstance). Same thing in Japan. BTW, I never condoned the behavior which was pretty rare by the 70s.

I view simple pedophilia in the US as a mental disorder with a very poor prognosis for total recovery. Pedophiles can learn to control their behavior but the drive still remains in most of them. Castration may not even work on these men.

Hard core pedophiles such as those involved in child pornography rings are probably more "psychopathic" and need to be separated from the rest of the culture to protect children. Same with repeat offenders.

Now concerning Anquetil, there was no incest, the women were both over the age of consent and the sex was consensual. There may have been hurt feelings but it's none of my business and besides, who am I to cast the first stone?

Ménage à trois, the French term describing a domestic arrangement in which three people having sexual relations occupy the same household was and is not an uncommon occurrence in France... and other places.

So in my opinion this falls into the realm of pulp journalism. It sells books and magazines but it ain't no one's business but the participants.

"Fignon has admitted doping." So have many other star athletes from 70s, 80s and 90s.

The rules and times have changed so let's ENFORCE THEM and move on!

BTW, I think the person in the CR group was a little out of line in his attack on you. Confused

Chas.

nicolas

I think we all agree so far...

I don't mean to link every story to Greg LeMond but here it is...

In 1982, two US riders attacked in the last kilometers of the professionnal road world championship race. The first one to attack had a good chance to win, and may I say, the only shot of his entire career to shine. That didn't stop his young US rival to chase him, bringing back and later allowing italian rider Giuseppe Saronni to win the gold medal. The young traitor was awarded a silver medal for what was considered at the time by many observers, a felony.

Of course, I am speaking of Jonathan Boyer and Greg LeMond.

27 years later, all I see is a future child molester being taught a lesson by a young man who had himself been molested as a child. Of course, none of them knew that at the time, but...strange, strange and ironic story, isn't it ?