gitaneusa.com :: View topic - Possibly French

Rixtir

I don't claim to know what this bike is, but consider a different direction. Those style of seat stay caps were used on some high-end Univegas. They also used long-point lugs (I've usually seen them with cutouts), and similar dropouts.

For reference, here's a Univega (scroll down for detailed photos) with similar (but not identical) seat stay caps. The fork crown is different, but Univega made several high-end models through the 80s, so it's possible they made a model with that type of fork crown.

Again, I'm not claiming that it's a Univega, but it does have some similarities with Univega's racing models.

Rick

velomateo

Yeah, I know Univega made some nice frames, but there are way to many differences for this to be a Univega. Lugs are similar but not the same brand.

verktyg

Univega was a brand name created by Ben Lawee in the mid to late 70s.

Lawee Inc. had been the importer for Motobecanes during much of the 70s. They also created the Italvega brand of bikes that they had made for them in Italy. The first Univegas were made in Italy, almost all of the rest were made in Japan with maybe a few coming from Taiwan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Univega

Those style Bocama lugs with the spot welded reinforcement rings where probably only used in France and North America.

It was highly unlikely that the Italians used many of those lugs. They had their own suppliers. Same thing for most of the British builders.

Except for Nervex lugs, I doubt that the Japanese would ever buy French made lugs as they too had their own suppliers.

Back in the day, Bocama Professional long point lugs with the reinforcing rings like the ones on this frame were considered "clunky". They were a sign of a mid range off the rack French bike, not something that would be used on a custom frame, least not one with a reputation.

Bocama lugs while strong and well made required more finish work than some other makes for use on a custom frame. They had the ring which were usually removed plus the Bocama logo was stamped into the bottom head tube lug. They also had angle numbers such as 72, 73 or 74 stamped into them. These features had to be filled and filed - extra work.

The next thing, the fluted seat stay tops were a very labor intensive operation. Starting with filing or grinding an ellipse into the outside top of the seat stay, a matching piece was cut from the discarded end of the same size tubing. It was reversed and brazed into place then trimmed to size. The wrap around points were even more work!

That's one reason "fast back" seat stays became so popular, very little extra work!

Most production frames used cast steel plugs with flutes or flats or whatever.

Finally, the French and Spanish were the main users of metric bicycle tubing in the 70s. There was some metric tubes and frame building components imported into the US but the distributors couldn't give the stuff away!

The one comment that to me says that this is a repaired or rebuilt frame:

"There is a nub under the down tube for the clamp-on style shifters..."

That's the give away!

velomateo

Chas, I measured the OD of the tubing. The seat tube comes in at 26.3 and top and down tubes are 28.3. Would it be safe to assume the .3 in both measures is paint/powder coat? Also, do you know if there would be any difference in the markings on an earlier set of Campagnolo front dropouts vs. the fronts (or matches) for the 1010B's that you identified on the rears? I was wondering if this would be a way to determine if the fork and rear triangle were from the same time period.

verktyg

"The seat tube comes in at 26.3 and top and down tubes are 28.3."

The top tube would be 26mm on a metric tube frame and the seat and down tubes 28mm.

Since a 26mm metric top tube is .6mm larger than a 25.4mm "Imperial" (inch) size tube, it's hard to mismeasure.

Generally though you need to measure a tube in several places both side to side and front to back.

It's not uncommon to have paint .1mm to .2mm (0.004" to 0.008") thick per side.

Campy dropouts, since they were forgings AND I've been told that they were made by several different sources over the years, it would be reasonable to expect differences from batch to batch.

verktyg

Here's the standard 1010 dropout from the mid 70s:

Compare it with these 1010B droupouts:

velomateo

Here's the "mystery bike" all cleaned up. Just thought you guys might enjoy seeing the finished project. Never found out what it is, so I chose a decal kit I liked. Enjoy.

verktyg

Nice job!