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vintagespoke

Hello,

I am a new member of this list so I thought I should first introduce myself. I have been restoring and ridding vintage lightweights for several years now and have been a Classic Rendezvous List member since 2000. Since I am rather tall finding nice vintage French bikes has been somewhat difficult. A couple of years ago I purchased a nice Gitane bike off eBay that I am just now getting around to restoring. It had a very nice set of components that leads me to believe the bike is from the mid to late 60’s; more likely circa ’68. I have all my bikes posted on the Wool jersey website under my last name ‘Robinson’, and you can see all the photos of the Gitane there. What I was hoping this forum can do is help ID the bike and/or frame. I have included photos of the bike as it was sold on eBay, and photos of key frame details to help in this identification. The following unique items were sold with the bike that if memory serves me correctly were said to be original (but don’t fit the Gitane SC or TdF typical components list of the late 60’s). The bike came with: Campy Record rear der.; Campy record front der. w/cable stop; Campy shifters with built-in black cable guides; Stronglight 49d crank arms w/TA rings; Stronglight BB, Stronglight headset; MAFAC Dural Forge brakes; Atom freewheel; and the best part was the wheelset – Normandy hubs w/oil ports (Like Campy Record hubs) and early Mavic sew-up rims (Sports?). Some of the frame details that make me feel this may be a SC are fork crown, Campy drop-outs and fork ends; seat stay caps; no rear brake bridge (no indication one was cut off the frame) and a chrome headtube decal. I was told by one knowledgeable French bike coinsurer that this was a mid 60’s SC labeled a TdF for the US market.

Please take a look at the photos and tell me what you think. Either way she will likely stay the way I bought her and will be ridden. No wall hangers here.

Thanks for the help,

Richard Robinson
Chesapeake VA

verktyg

Richard,

Welcome to the Forum.

Nice rare find.

There are small foil decals on both sides of the down tube just below the shift levers. They'll have the model name on them, what do they say, Super Corsa, Tour de France or something else?

I think that you hit it on the head, it's most likely a 1968 whatever.

Gitane introduced the foil decals like the ones on your bike around 1968
maybe late 1967.

It's what I call the Foil Decal era, from 1968 until mid 1974. There were very few changes in the Gitane decals during that period.

The foil head tube was probably discontinued by 1970 or 71 - too labor intensive on a production bike.

Guessing the age of the bike based on the components is the last resort unless you know for sure that they are all original. It's so easy to change wheels, derailleurs and so on.

Frame features are a little different.

Gitane used the Wagner flat top crowns like on your bike off and on from the late 60s until the early 70s.

I think that they were most likely used when Gitane had an availability problem getting Nervex Professional crowns like these. Gitane used these crowns from the late 60s until maybe 1972.

About 1972 Gitane switched from the Nervex Professional to the Nervex Dubois fork crowns on their top models.

They also used this style Nervex crown from time to time.

Gitane only used the center pull brake cable bridges at the top of the seat stays for a few years. They were most likely discontinued at the bigging of the bike boom for productivity reasons.

The style of the crimped seat stay tops on your bike is a distinctive feature. The stays look like they are 14mm diameter instead of the larger 16mm stays used on most of Gitane's performance and better quality bikes.

For awhile in the late 1960s very early 1970s Gitane used the willow leaf brazed on seat stay caps on the top models. This feature too was discontinued at the beginning of the bike boom in the early 70s.

The nice caps were replaced with a swagged seat stay top.

The Stronglight 49 crank arms with TA chainrings was also common for whatever reason it those days.

I can't tell what kind of headset you have. I doesn't look like a Stronglight P3, the model that would have been used on Tour de France and similar models.

ONE LAST THING!

Your stem is about 2" too high. It needs to be inserted about 3" into the steering tube!

So, there you have it

sandranian · Site Admin

nice bike, and welcome to the forum. It is rare to find an old Super Corsa (which is what I think that is, most likely) with the foil headtube, as it was pictured in the catalogue.

Chas. post essentially nailed it on the head, again. Very thorough...thanks Chas.!

vintagespoke

Chas,

Thanks for the info. Sorry, I should have included some photos of the decals. The decal on the down tube is ‘Professional Tour De France’. The only reason I question if this is a TdF is the headtube decal and some of the frame details. Having said this, it sounds as if this is in fact a ’67-’69 TdF? Do you think the components are original? It would be nice if they were. I especially like the HF Normandy Pro hubs with oil ports and the early Mavic sew-up rims...A rare find indeed.

Based on previous posts I know the ID of a SC and TdF are difficult at this era. I have read the posts about the fork steerer tube length and headset stack height. I tend to agree in this theory if it were not for the ease of changing the stack height to accommodate other headsets. Could this be a SC labeled TdF for the US market as was previously though by another French bike coinsurer?

As far as the stem, I have not yet inspected the stem and will more than likely use a later version of a forged Pivo stem that I removed from a ’78 Motobecane. Old Pivo cast stem will be used only for photos.

I have included some photos - headset, down tube decal, Ideor seat that was not part of the eBay sale...too bad.

verktyg

Richard,

As far as I can guess, the Super Corsa models were only made for the US market.

The first mention that I've seen of a Super Corsa model is in the August, 1966 Mel Pinto price list. It was probably a 1967 model introduced late in 1966 as was/is common practice in bikes, cars and other products. Also, that doesn't mean that they were ever actually available at the time!

http://www.gitaneusa.com/images/catalog/1966/pricesheet/1966-Price-Sheet-005.jpg

In the early 60s aluminum coated Mylar® was used for several 100 foot diameter balloons that were launched into space aboard satellites. The light weight balloons were inflated when the satellites reached orbit.

By the mid 60s adhesive backed Mylar® foil became commercially available and it was stuck on everything. Soon the shiny foil lost it's novelty in the US and quickly became equated with cheap low cost products.

The French bicycle industry however became infatuated with the stuff and continued using it for brand name decals on bikes until the mid 1970s!

Gitane started using Mylar foil decals in the mid 60s, initially only on the seat tubes; later on the down tubes and then head tubes too.

Mid 1960s Gitane:

Gitane down tube decal from 1967?. It's different from those used from ~1968 to mid 1974:

I use the term "Foil Decal Era" from 1968 to 1974 to categorize the Mylar foil decals used throughout most of the Bike Boom. They changed very little if at all during those years.

Reproduction foil decals made by Cyclomondo in OZ and sold on eBay:

It appears that for the European market Gitane called the Super Corsa model Olympic (all Campy except Mafac brakes) and Super Olympic (with Campy brakes). They also had a model Champion Du Monde which was between the Super Corsa/Olympic models and the Tour de France.

NOW, what delineates these models?

Some have made the silly argument that it's the dropouts! During the Foil Decal Era on the TdF and similar models Gitane used whatever dropouts were expedient at the time the frame was being built - Simplex, Huret and occasionally Campagnolo. The top of the line bikes almost always had Campagnolo rear dropouts! Front dropouts could have been Simplex, Huret or Campy on any of those bikes!

Campagnolo dropouts were imported from Italy and had to have been more expensive than the home grown Simplex and Huret dropouts. But... when you're trying to fill orders, little details like dropouts become inconsequential.

There is currently a European model Gitane Tour de France on eBay with Huret dropouts!

I use the headset as the dividing line between the "Professional" models and the next tier down. Campagnolo headsets were used on the Super Corsa, Olympic, Super Olympic, Gran Tourisme and Super Pista models. These bikes were considered "All Campy" professional models.

Campy headsets require a stem that is 8mm to 10mm longer than those used with standard Gitane headsets and Stronglight P3 headsets.

In woodworking, you can always take more material off but you can't put it back on; so goes for steering tube length!

If you've ever tried to replace a headset on a frame with a steering tube that's too short then you will easily understand why this is such a big issue!

It looks like your bike has a standard Gitane headset like used on the Gran Sport and similar models.

Around 1968 Gitane started using Stronglight model 93 cranksets. Your bike has model 49 cranks with TA chainrings.

Several other things to consider, your bike would have been considered a premium model at that time. Not many people could afford a bike like yours.

Gitane built bikes for working people so there were never many of these kinds of "Pro" model bikes produced.

Another thing is that many people take Campagnolo components for granted. Most Campy parts were not readily available until 1975, after the Bike Boom bubble had burst. This was especially true of Campy brakes!

The French attitude was: get a bike with a good frame, decent wheels and the rest is unimportant. I've seen numerous top model French bikes from the 1960s through mid 70s with cheap Huret Alvit or plastic Simplex derailleurs. Campagnolo is a state of mind!

The French built bikes to ride, not look at!

One last thing, can you post a picture of your hubs please?

vintagespoke

Chas,

Again thanks for the info. I just knew this was the place to get the answers to my questions.

Here is a photo of the HF Normandy Pro hubs with oil ports and the early Mavic sew-up rims

I have also included a photo from eBay auction I lost to several years ago for a like pair of hubs. Way out of my price range of more than two hundred.

I have used Cyclomondo for a few projects in the past, great decals! I will use his old repo Mavic decals for these rims pictured above.

I try and make all my bikes OME, or at least period correct when safety and original parts are not available. What would you suggest I do with this bike? I would like to think the parts are original to the bike but don’t know for sure. The bike will be a rider (as all bikes should be). I love the 49d cranks w/TA chainrings. I just bought a pair of 175 from Hilary Stone to replace the 170 length ones that came with the bike. The early Camp Record der set is very cool and far better than my late 60’s plastic Simplex Criterium derailleurs. Several folks may argue this. Perhaps Campy may not shift as well, but one has to agree that steel will last longer than plastic. So what do you think? Should I keep the bike the way it is or should I try and make it catalog correct? That is if the bike is not original as the seller I bought the bike from said.

By the way, I love that example of the mid 60’s Gitane you posted. Now if I could only find one in my size. It seems very few French cyclists were my size back in the sixties.

Here is a link to my bikes on the Wool Jersey site. Please take a look as there are more photos of the Gitane.

Thanks for the great insight thus far and I look forward to all future comments concerning how or what I should do with my '68 Gitane TdF.

Richard Robinson
Chesapeake VA

vintagespoke

Sorry,

I forgot to add the link for my wool jersey page. Here you go.

http://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/v/vintagespoke/?g2_page=1

Gitane is on page two. Enjoy Very Happy

verktyg

Richard,

Great collection!

I've been TV free for over a year now since the switch to HDTV or whatever... Never bothered to get my free converter!

On of my favorite shows was the "ANTIQUES ROADSHOW" on PBS. I used to enjoy watching the Keno brothers, the blond twins do an appraisal...

"This fine set of Chippendale chairs that you so carefully restored is worth about $500! If you would have left them alone, they would be worth half a million!"

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/roadshow/video/EI_200905F01.html

That's sort of my attitude too.

Think about this, how many 64cm Gitanes like yours were ever built? How many of these 42+ year old bikes still exist?

The largest and smallest frame sized bikes were the slowest movers (50cm and 64cm). Your bike could have sat in Gitane's warehouse for years. It could be as early as a 1965 or 66 model.

Imagine this scenario: Gitane got an order for a 64cm Tour de France, they looked around and had none. But wait, here's an old such and such model that been sitting around for years. "Let's throw some new style decals on it and ship it!" It could have happened!

I think that your bike is all original and maybe earlier than a 1967-68 model. Decals were easy to change, we sometimes did it at our shop (for completely ethical reasons such as color).

If a rare bike is rust free, the chrome is in good shape and everything is in decent condition I think that it should be minimally restored just for safety and functionality reasons.

Go ride it, beat it up some more. Add some more patina. After it's lost it's "all original" value then you can restore it.

In most cases when a bike is restored it looses up to 75% of it's value. This is true even when done by some of the top bike restorers. In any case, you will never get the money out of it that you put in!

A restored 64cm 1972 Tour de France was just listed on eBay. It looks nice but for anyone who knows, it looks like a $500 Chippendale chair!

If you want a new looking bike then go buy one of restore a 32' Ford that's been sitting out in the desert for 50 years!

I've never seen those style Normandy hubs before. They may be worth more unlaced than as a wheel set.

My suggestion would be to get a set of 700c clincher wheels with alloy rims and the old 120mm wide 5 speed rear hub and freewheel. Get a set of those Marathon Plus 700x32c tires and ride it.

Save all of your old parts in case your want to restore it.

BTW, "thorn proof" tubes are NOT! In fact we found that they were more likely to flat from a goathead than regular tube plus they kill all sense of road feel. Same thing with all of the various strips designed to go inside the tire casing.

You might want to try Tufo Tire Sealant. It seems to work very well.

http://www.tufonorthamerica.com/accessories.php

greyhundguy

OMG! Another long legged Virginia Gitaneophile. NICE, early bike Richard. It's good to see some of these turning up on GUSA.

I think a ground up restoration is in order. Sandblast, new paint and decals all NOS parts to get it to original. Spare no expense..........................JUST KIDDING!!!!!!!! Clean it, tune it, ride it and enjoy. It's a treasure of Gitane History.

Jay "about 150 miles West in Halifax"

vintagespoke

Jay,

Thanks for the kind words. Finding a large Italian or French vintage lightweigth has been a chalenge. I have had this bike for a few years now, but between the move to VA, work and family I have just now started to work on it again.
By the way, I traveled to Leesburg VA for the Cirque on Sunday and notice very few French bikes on display. None of the mainstays like Gitanes, Peug, Moto that I can remember (maybe I missed them?!) Next year I will display my giant Gitane!

Again thanks for the kind words.

-Rich

greyhundguy

Rich,
I had hoped to go to Cirque also but could not make it. Sounds like it was a slightly smaller crowd than usual.

Seems like the Italians keep scaring off the French. I just spoke with Wayne Bingham and he said it would be nice to do specific Manufacturer (Gitane etc.) displays in the future. He purchased MPI and has numerous items relating to Gitane from the old inventory. It was his "Cycles Gitane" banner you might have noticed in the Barn.

Jay

sandranian · Site Admin

I want that banner.

greyhundguy

sandranian · Site Admin

Are they as big as the banner?

Wink

greyhundguy