gitaneusa.com :: View topic - Tubular tire experts

scozim

I finally got to take my TdF out for a shakedown spin yesterday and absolutely loved the feel of the bike. It's got tubulars on it and I have a couple of questions.

The rear seems to hold air well but the front will inflate and a day or so later is pretty soft but not flat. Yesterday when I went to put air in the front tire and loosened the presta valve top the top half of the valve blew out of the tire. I screwed it back in and the tire inflated to 120 psi fine and held air on the ride. However, this morning it's back down to low air pressure.

The questions are:
1) could this just be a bad valve? I'm assuming they can be replaced.

2) I may stick with the tubulars a little while on this bike even though I've never used them before. In fact, my dad has some tires that he is going to bring over for me. I saw this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ac_QFWLiUDE on You Tube while investigating tubular tires and noted the Tufo rim tape instead of glue. Have any of you wise ones used this product? I'm curious how it compares to glue?

3) It looks like I must have is the Tufo sealant - has anyone ordered it online or is it easier from your local bike shop?

4) Any other advice as I look to move in the tubular direction? The original owner of the TdF said it could be an expensive habit to break. Very Happy

verktyg

Gtane

Wonderful information there Chas, thank you. I'll take a look at the links.

Scozim,

I try to let my tubs 'mature' for at least a couple of months before I put them on the bike, often much longer. Maturing means to pump them up (not too hard though) preferably on a rim but otherwise as they are and just let them hang ready for use. You'll find them much easier to put on the rim when ready for use.

My Vittoria CX tubs always go down, as Chas has explained, but the ride is superb.

For rim cement I'm currently using Continental's product (I'm new to this brand but so far so good, the Tufo sounds good and I may try that too) and for tape, well I have a supply of old stock from a UK company called Advanced Tapes which was, and still is, superb. Unfortunately the product is no longer made so I'll soon be moving to another brand, not sure which one at this point but one that does not dry out, again as Chas explained. I'll give the Tufo tape a try.

If you flat on a ride then apply tape to get you home, ideally take the tub off when you return. Clean the rim then reapply with tape or cement, ready for the next ride.

I've been fortunate with tub punctures in having very few over the years and often run the tyres higher than Chas suggests, simply because I find it brings the bike to life, but always within the recommended boundaries of the tyre. Manufacturers give recommended psi levels which are lower than the maximum.

I'm no expert, simply a user.

Tim

smilingroadrunner

Scozim

Chas brought the Tufo products to my awareness earlier this past spring.
his information links above are quite handy.

For what it's worth, I highly recommend the Tufo " Extreme " tire sealant. I've had 4 episodes on rides this year which were repaired by this wonderful product--and I still continue to ride on those sew ups. So now, besides a spare sew up under my saddle, I DONT LEAVE HOME WITHOUT IT. It's just too simple to use, and gets me right back on the saddle in just a few minutes. This again is assuming simple small puncture type issues---but it is a GREAT product.

I don't have any experience with the regular Tufo sealant--the yellow packaged product. I would assume this is more of a preventive type application for Cyclo-Cross racers.

Be aware that there are 2 temperature ranges for the Tufo rim tape. I purchased some this past spring, but given the higher temperature range of summer here in Kansas I haven't tried the product yet. My LBS owner shared with me that he has used it w/o problems in the higher temps. I think I may be inclined (if I had know at the time when I asked him to order it) to use the higher temp range product--as it probably would work well in the lower temp range also.

Over the 35-40 years of riding on sew-ups, I used Tubasti products in the early years, but of late seems like my LBS or Performance only had the Continental product available. I've probably been using the Continental cements the last 10-12 years. In my view, I believe the Tubasti product remained "tacky" better than the current Continental product.

I like Steel !!!!
___________________
C.A. Salina, Ks.

scozim

Thanks Tim and Chas.

Thanks for the good information. I think this will be an experiment I've probably needed to do for awhile. I also noticed the guy I bought the TdF from works as a mechanic at a shop that is a Tufo dealer. Good for me that he'll get more business (as long as he ships).

By the way, for clinchers have you looked at these Tufo tubular clincher tires. That's an interesting concept also.

http://www.tufonorthamerica.com/tiretypes.php

Scott

Gtane

Scott,

Thanks for the heads up on the tubular clinchers. I've never heard of those before. They look good and are certainly an interesting design. There might be an issue with machines that have very close clearances as the tub is shown to be further away from the rim than a conventional tub would be. It's hard to tell actual distance from the diagram. I'd like to see one in the canvas, as it were. Nice idea.

I'd like to read a comparative road test against conventional tubs, or high pressures. I'll have a search.

Smilingroadrunner,

Thanks for the information on the temperature range of of the Tufo tape and sealant.

Tim

verktyg

Tufo makes 2 unique tires - "sewup clinchers" and "tubeless sewups".

My LBS guru, Dennis Stone recommended against the Tufo sewup clinchers (for some reason I don't recall) but he's been trying to talk me into a set the Tufo tubeless sewups.

Dennis owns Stone's Cyclery in Alameda, CA and he's one of those icons in the bike business. He's been around since 1963 and features STEEL bikes.

Here's a link to his web site. Check out the Gallery section:
http://www.stonescyclery.com/index.html

More pics of Stone's Cyclery:
http://www.classicrendezvous.com/Bike_Shops/Stones_cyclery.htm

More classic bike shops in the US:
http://www.classicrendezvous.com/Bike_Shops/Bike_shops.htm[/b]

Chas.

verktyg

The topic of Tire Pressure is rife with opinions.

It comes close to "Let me go home with you and show you how to take care of your significant other..."

Consider these factors:

1. Professional bike races and high level amateur events usually have vehicles with lots of spare wheels and tires to quickly replace flat tires. They use tires rated for ridiculously high pressures. Frequent flats are generally not a problem especially since the riders are not paying for their tires!

2. Competitive cyclists always look for any advantage that will improve their performance (whether real or imagined). They also tend to be the most slavish followers of the latest trends. They have to have whatever the latest sports hero is using!

3. As I've mentioned before, there is only a 7% reduction in rolling resistance between 85 PSI and 105 PSI in the average bike tires that have been tested. This can vary a little depending on tire size and other factors.

There is however a perceived "feel" that harder tires are "faster". Part of that is due to the frequency of road vibrations that are transmitted through the bike to the rider. At higher speeds the vibrations are higher in frequency. Same things happens with tires pumped to higher pressures, they give the illusion of "faster" speed because the vibration frequencies are higher.

4. There are always trade offs and exceptions. For example small cross section tires (18-19mm) need to be inflated to higher pressures to prevent pinch flats. The smaller the tire and the heavier the rider the more this comes into play.

In my cycling heydays I weighed 175 Lbs. and rode Clement Paris-Roubaix cotton tubulars with a 28mm cross section. My clinchers were 28mm too. I liked these "larger" cross section tires because they provided a more comfortable ride that was easier on my hands, arms and shoulders. I ran 85-95 PSI tire pressures and experienced very few flats in severe goat head country.

Over the past 25 years I've weighed as much as 250 Lbs. Embarassed

I'm currently 225. I've occasionally ridden small 18mm or 19mm cross section clincher tires (I didn't buy them, they were already on wheels that I acquired). Those I've inflated to at least 100 PSI to prevent pinch flats.

I currently ride clinchers with 23mm, 25mm or 28mm cross sections and sewups with 21mm or larger cross sections. I don't plan on pumping them up to more that 95 - 100 PSI. I don't expect to get a lot of flats. Wink

Here's my last and final pronouncement on the subject of tire pressure:

1. If you are a heavier rider get some larger cross section tires. Your body and pocketbook will thank you. Avoid the trap of "Does this dress make me look fat?" syndrome.

2. Run at lower tire pressures than are listed as the maximum on the tires. Your pocketbook will thank you and you'll have more uptime riding rather than changing tires.

4. Tire companies and bike shops love to sell you tires. They don't care how high you pump them up! Twisted Evil

4. BaDa, BaDa, BaDaa... That's all folks. Laughing

Our rainy season has just started and the Classic Rendezvous ride scheduled for today has been canceled so don't pick on me, I'm not in a good mood! Crying or Very sad

Chas.

verktyg

Tim,

Good to know about the Continental rim cement not staying tacky.

C.A.

Thanks for the report on the Tufo rim tape.

I've only tried the yellow label Tufo Tire Sealant. The orange label is only supposed to be for repairs. The quandary is - if the stuff prevents flats, how do I know that it works? Confused

To All

Tufo tire sealant comes with a little plastic wrench to remove removable presta valve cores. They also provide a little piece of clear plastic tubing to fit over the valve stem.

For presta valves with non removable cores (most of them) you just open the valve and slide the tubing over the stem.

Chas.

Gtane

verktyg

Tim,

Pastali PX42 it still available in the UK but I haven't found it for sale anywhere in the US.

I'm down to my last 2 tubes of 20 year old Pastali so I'm looking for a replacement. It still seems to be working OK.

Yesterday I just picked up a new set of tubular wheels that I had special built using a set of black anodized Super Champion Arc en Ciel rims with black anodized Shimano low flange hubs. Cool

Chas.

Gtane

verktyg

I got the black anodized Super Champion Arc en Ciel rims NOS from France. They're going on my red 1992 Paramount. It has all black components. I have a set of black clincher rim wheels on it now. Who says Chas. can't succumb to bike vanity? Laughing

Arc en Ciel rims were always my favorites. I have a silver anodized pair of NOS Wolber Arc en Ciel rims. I'm going to mount them on some Campy NR hubs and put them on one of my Gitanes. Somehow the Woblers are not quite the same without the rainbow decals used on the Super Champs. Sad

Chas.

Paul Wiseman

Chas, you are the master Cool

. Old school. I'm a little surprised that you didn't shellac your tyres on.... Twisted Evil

5 points to make boyo's:

1. Stick on tapes for tubulars. DON'T DO IT!. I've seen a few brands over the years, and none of them have been good. Tyres roll off at the most inconvenient of times. Which is usually mid-corner Crying or Very sad

. Glue, glue, glue. Although, I never saw "Advanced Tapes" Gtane. I will take your word for it though.

2. Glue. Haven't been able to get Clement for a good long while. Vittoria is junk. Continental is super as fas as I am concerned. I am very patient and put 4 very thin layers on rim and tyre each with one more slippery coat just before putting tyre to rim. They are a bit of a bugger to get off if you do have a flat, but not impossible. Here in Australia we have heat, so it is important to know that when the glue softens up (normal), there is enough of it to keep the tyre secure. I have no idea how Continental glue performs in really cold temps. We just dont get near freezing here.

3. Tyres. There are only two brands to buy. Continental for training, and Velomax for racing. Vittoria is now made in Thailand and is junk. Velomax is the bees knees. Many Pro teams use these re-badged with their sponsor's logo. Velomax used to be called Clement. Enough said. There is no other.

4. If you want a tubular like feel without the expense, try Continental GP4000 in a 25mm. Supple and sticky, smooth and fast. Conti Gatorskin is a bit cheaper and almost as good. But get the 25's. The bag out to about the size and shape of a 23mm tubular.

5. You all listen to the Chas-meister with regard to tyre pressure. Less is better. I am 85kg = nearly 190lbs. I put 90psi in front and 100 in back(25mm). With 23mm clinchers I have to go 95 and 105 (too fat = pinch flat on skinny tyres). Use 25mm tyres, lower pressure and you will descend like a rocketship. You will have awesome grip. If you are a bit lighter, you can go with the 85 x 90/95 option.

Happy riding everyone,
Wisey

Gtane · Last edited by Gtane on Mon Nov 03, 2008 5:37 am; edited 1 time in total