gitaneusa.com Forum Index » Vintage Gitane » Craig's list add... What model is this? Goto page 1, 2  Next    View previous topic :: View next topic  Craig's list add... What model is this?   Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 3:32 pm gmany Joined: 20 Aug 2009 Posts: 47 http://stlouis.craigslist.org/bik/1953710030.html I noticed this today in my daily internet browsing circuit. What model do you think it is? It has a wide ratio freewheel and stem shifters, but don't those foil decals indicate a higher end bike? Also it looks like a quality fork crown, not a capped one. Let me know what you think. _________________ Garrett Miles Saint Louis, Missouri Early 70s Gitane Interclub   Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:33 pm verktyg Joined: 14 Jan 2007 Posts: 2814 Location: SF Bay Area It looks like a 1972 or 73 Gitane Interclub. It has a first generation Sugino Maxy cast aluminum (melt forged) cotterless crankset. We had some problems with the first generation Maxy cranks, the swagged on chainring would come loose and it took months to get warranty replacements from Gitane. After that, I never cared for ANY cast aluminum cranks (melt forged is a BS euphemism for pressure cast aluminum)! During those years, Interclubs imported into the US came with Simplex Prestige derailleurs. Gitane rarely used stem shifters. Someone may have replaced the Simplex derailleurs with what appear to be early Suntour models. Interclubs were marketed as Gitane's amateur racing model and came with sewups. They had a more sporting frame geometry that the entry level Gran Sport model. Also note, the front fork decal is the one used on Super Corsa models. I've seen TdF and SC fork decals switched around on different models before, too much wine for lunch? _________________ Chas. SF Bay Area, CA USA ============== 1984 Criterium 1969 TdF 1971 TdF 1974 TdF 1984 TdF x 2 Bikes 1970 SC 1971 SC 1972 SC 1984 SC 1984 Team Pro 1985 Professional 1990s Team Replica Chas....   Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:56 am PLS Joined: 05 Sep 2010 Posts: 13 Location: Southern New Hampshire my Grand Sport Deluxe frame looks identical to this one, and is the same size. I am very new here and am no expert on Gitanes, so could you explain the differences that I can't apparently see? Also, how much does this bike weigh, does it have the same type of steel that the TDF had? Thanks, PLS _________________ Ride first, work later   Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:44 am trailrunner Joined: 21 Jul 2010 Posts: 20 Location: Fort Worth, TX Chas - how can you look at these craigslist photos and tell what type of crank it has? When I try to enlarge it, it just doesn't have any resolution. You always seem to be able to see the details. what's the secret? PLS - I don't think the Grand Sport Deluxe had a Reynolds frame like the TdF. The Reynlds tubing had thinner walls in the center to cut down on weight, and thicker walls at the ends for strength. It's referred to as "double-butted". _________________ Dave B Ft Worth, TX   Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:44 am scozim Joined: 26 Sep 2008 Posts: 629 Location: Ellensburg, WA It does look like the Sugino Maxy - even as blurry as it was. Those first iterations had three bolts and were lower end models. This is a photo of a set I have with 165mm arms - 52-48 rings. The big ring can't be changed out but the smaller one can. _________________ 1984 Gitane Sprint 1984 Gitane Tour de France mid-1970's Gitane Olympic Plus many more http://eburgcycling.blogspot.com almost the same   Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:41 am Frenchbuilt Joined: 18 Apr 2007 Posts: 443 Looks almost the same. http://www.leboncoin.fr/sports_hobbies/101833025.htm?ca=7_s   Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:21 am scozim Joined: 26 Sep 2008 Posts: 629 Location: Ellensburg, WA Yep, those are the cranks. By the way, have I ever said how I hate living on this side of the "pond" and looking at all the nice Gitane bikes for sale in France on that website. _________________ 1984 Gitane Sprint 1984 Gitane Tour de France mid-1970's Gitane Olympic Plus many more http://eburgcycling.blogspot.com   Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:38 am Frenchbuilt Joined: 18 Apr 2007 Posts: 443 Lots of bikes like this here and slowly coming out of the basements as the older generation of riders sell off their no longer used road bikes. Its like selling off old run of the mill fords and chevys that have no personal value. Gitanes are not really collected in France. French people in general are more concerned with day to day living and bikes are just part of it. I don't find the French very nostalgic when it comes to objects but very much so when it comes to people and relations. Anyway, this is just my two bit opinion. Dan Re: Chas....   Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:59 am verktyg Joined: 14 Jan 2007 Posts: 2814 Location: SF Bay Area PLS wrote: my Grand Sport Deluxe frame looks identical to this one, and is the same size. I am very new here and am no expert on Gitanes, so could you explain the differences that I can't apparently see? Differences in Pre 1974 models: 1.Frame Geometry. Gitane Gran Sport bikes had the kind of geometry that was used on road racing bikes prior to the late 60s - long wheel base, long fork rake with the bend near the bottom of the fork blades. Gran Sport The Interclub was Gitane's amateur (or entry level) racing model. Much shorter fork rake with a more gradual bend starting near the middle of the blades. The Interclub frames were designed to be more maneuverable and have a more "sporty" feel. Inteclub 2. Decals. Gran Sports came with either red or blue Mylar® foil seat tube decals (see GS picture above). The Gitane racing or sporting model bikes like the Interclub, Tour de France, Super Corsa and pista or track models and others came with a silver foil Mylar® seat tube decal. They also had a "Service Course" decal on the right side of the top tube. Gitane put a silver foil decal with the model name on both sides of the down tube just below the shift levers. The Interclub stickers were shorter than all the rest. Other Differences: The forks on "most" Gran Sports were painted and had a stamped steel fork crown. Interclub forks were 1/2 chrome plated with a chrome plated Nervex fork crown. Interclubs used brake cable clamps on the top tube. Gran Sports had brazed on cable stops. The sporting or racing models had 16mm seat stays. Gran Sports had 12mm or 14mm seat stays. Also Interclubs came with sewups instead of 27 x 1 1/4 clinchers. PLS wrote: Also, how much does this bike weigh, does it have the same type of steel that the TDF had? Interclubs weighed between 24 and 25 lbs. depending on size. Sewups weighed about 3 lbs. less than the clincher wheels on Gran Sports. The Gran Sport was an entry level model made with plain gage carbon steel tubing. The wall thickness on the 3 main frame tube was about 1.5mm thick. Gitane Gran Sports out of the box weighed about 28 lbs. This was slightly lighter than some competitive Bike Boom models that were made of heavier gage tubing and much lighter than 40 lb. Schwinns! Out of the box, Tour de France bikes weighed 21 1/2 lbs to 23 lbs depending on size. Super Corsas were about 1/2 lb. heavier because Campagnolo components weighed a little more than the French components on the TdFs. Tour de France and Super Corsa frames were made of Reynolds 531 alloy steel tubing which was 50% to 60% stronger than carbon steel. This allowed the stronger alloy steel tubing to be made thinner, thus lighter and more "supple" or flexible. The 3 main tubes on these Reynolds 531 frames were "butted". The top and down tubes were "double butted" and the set tube was "single butted". The butted ends had a wall thickness on 1.0mm ans the thinner sections were 0.7mm which was less than half the thickness of the tubes used on Gran Sports! I've seen some Interclubs that were made with Durifort brand tubes, some made with an unknown tubing that was lighter than what was used on the Gran Sports and some made out of the same tubes as the GSs. The seatpost diameter is the easiest way to tell. The standard GS tubing used 25.8mm seatposts while Durifort used 26mm or 26.2mm. _________________ Chas. SF Bay Area, CA USA ============== 1984 Criterium 1969 TdF 1971 TdF 1974 TdF 1984 TdF x 2 Bikes 1970 SC 1971 SC 1972 SC 1984 SC 1984 Team Pro 1985 Professional 1990s Team Replica   Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 12:30 pm verktyg Joined: 14 Jan 2007 Posts: 2814 Location: SF Bay Area trailrunner wrote: Chas - how can you look at these craigslist photos and tell what type of crank it has? When I try to enlarge it, it just doesn't have any resolution. You always seem to be able to see the details. what's the secret? Good eyes! I assembled, sold and repaired these kinds of bikes for 6-7 years back in the 1970s. We did a quick assessment of bikes that were brought in for service to decide who worked on them. The "good" bikes always went to our top mechanics! I have a quick and dirty way of looking at these kinds of pictures. It takes too long to load and mess around with Photoshop. I've used MS Word for illustrated technical writing for years. Right click on the picture you want to view then click on copy or whatever choice is available. Launch Word and paste the picture into it. The picture usually gets pasted at about 1/2 size, drag one corner to enlarge it. Right click on the Menu Bar at the top and click on Picture to load the Picture Tool Bar. From there you can use the "More Brightness" and "More Contrast" buttons to enhance the picture. Note you have to left click on the picture to make it active so than the buttons work. It takes me about 10 seconds to copy, pate and manipulate a picture in Word. Photoshop takes at least 60 seconds just to load! Now you know all of my secrets! _________________ Chas. SF Bay Area, CA USA ============== 1984 Criterium 1969 TdF 1971 TdF 1974 TdF 1984 TdF x 2 Bikes 1970 SC 1971 SC 1972 SC 1984 SC 1984 Team Pro 1985 Professional 1990s Team Replica   Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 12:54 pm verktyg Joined: 14 Jan 2007 Posts: 2814 Location: SF Bay Area scozim wrote: It does look like the Sugino Maxy - even as blurry as it was. Those first iterations had three bolts and were lower end models. This is a photo of a set I have with 165mm arms - 52-48 rings. The big ring can't be changed out but the smaller one can. Scott, those are the ones. The large chainrings were swagged onto the cast aluminum (melt forged) crank arms the same way that steel crank arm were made. Aluminum has only 1/3 to 1/2 the strength of common steel. Unfortunately Sugino didn't allow for enough material to be swagged over to securely hold the chainings in place. The chainrings came loose on some of the very first Maxy cranks like these. I guess the Japanese weren't prepared for 200+ lb. riders stomping on their cranks. We had some failures on several of the first Interclubs that came in with Sugino Maxy cranks and it took us months to get warranty replacements from Gitane. Ever since then I've always considered "melt forged" cranks "re-meltable" - just my jaded opinion! "Melt forged" is a euphemism for pressure casting! Molten metal is injected into a mold at high pressure. It's not a substitute for real forging used on the best quality cranks. Alloy chainrings and cotterless cranks still beat the heck out most steel cranksets. I like the smooth feel of the chain on alloy rings. There were millions of bikes made with these style Melt Forged cotterless cranks and most worked without any problems. BTW, these original cranks only came in 165mm lengths! _________________ Chas. SF Bay Area, CA USA ============== 1984 Criterium 1969 TdF 1971 TdF 1974 TdF 1984 TdF x 2 Bikes 1970 SC 1971 SC 1972 SC 1984 SC 1984 Team Pro 1985 Professional 1990s Team Replica Thanks Chas for all the helpful details   Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 1:34 pm gmany Joined: 20 Aug 2009 Posts: 47 I didn't realize that early foil decal era interclubs had that decal on the seat tube and not the red one, or that the name decals on the downtube were so short, but that makes perfect sense. "Professional Tour De France", "Professional Super Corsa", "Interclub" I didn't get the bike. I was not real motivated for a lower level bike in unoriginal fair condition, and I had just gotten a different bike. _________________ Garrett Miles Saint Louis, Missouri Holy Cow! It's a small world!   Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 1:50 am Walter Joined: 05 Oct 2010 Posts: 10 I think I may have bought this bike. How weird is that? I can't see the pics...as the posting was deleted, but It IS an Interclub and I DID buy it in St. Louis MO. I just posted pics of it in "Year of my Interclub???" as a new thread. Wow, I'm easily entertained. _________________ Never hire a Frenchman to paint your bike...unless you're like me and appreciate the soul and character you're left with. Less than perfect...Just like myself. It's all good. BTW   Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 1:52 am Walter Joined: 05 Oct 2010 Posts: 10 BTW...It rides like a Caddy. _________________ Never hire a Frenchman to paint your bike...unless you're like me and appreciate the soul and character you're left with. Less than perfect...Just like myself. It's all good.   Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 4:20 am mikkla Joined: 23 Aug 2010 Posts: 87 Location: The Netherlands LOL, how nice!! Enjoy the bike _________________ Greetings from the Netherlands!! Craig's list add... 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