| | | | | | | | | Gitane TDF? With Dura Ace | | | | | |
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:00 am |
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Hilly Ben |
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Joined: 17 Jul 2012 |
Posts: 4 |
Location: London, England |
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Hello Everyone
My name's Ben from London, England. I recently picked up this Gitane. Yesterday actually. Research so far leads me to believe it is a 1976 Tour De France model. I haven't seen any other examples built with Shimano Dura Ace.
In fact it looks like Dura Ace EX which Velobase lists as beginning in 1978.
The frame has a "Shimano Dura Ace Series Components" sticker on the DT so i believe it to be originally built with DA
Full list
Frame - Reynolds 531
Wheels - rear 'Aldo' high flange hub, front 'New Star' high flange hub
Both on Mavic MA2 rims. Aldo has circular flange cutouts like
Campagnolo Tipo, New Star has Maillard style cutouts
Gears- Dura Ace EX
Brakes - Dura Ace EX
Chainset - Sugino Mighty, french thread
Bars/Stem - both Ambrosio
Seatpin - 3TTT 26.4
Saddle - San Marco Unknown
Headset - Stronglight? no marking
BB - Sugino
Pedals - Iberia
Extras - Dura Ace top tube clips, various Shimano gear cable guides
One interesting feature is the Campagnolo drop bolt on the rear caliper
of which i've only ever seen two in the flesh. I'm not sure why the rear should require one but the front does not
Here are the pictures, Any thoughts or confirmation of model would be much welcomed
Many Thanks
Ben
London
England |
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:24 pm |
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auchencrow |
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Joined: 09 Oct 2011 |
Posts: 53 |
Location: Detroit |
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Hi Ben!
The sticker doesn't convince me that the DA group is original.
The fact that a drop bolt had to be installed for the rear brake strongly suggests to me it is a substitute for the group that originally came with the bike.
I'm also with you on the '76 date based on the honeycomb dropouts.
Those extra-thick, cast-iron-looking headset spacers may indicate that the original headset was a taller Campagnolo headset. - If so, then my hunch is that your bike is an Olympic, not a Tdf, and someone made off with the Campagnolo group. |
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:02 pm |
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Hilly Ben |
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Joined: 17 Jul 2012 |
Posts: 4 |
Location: London, England |
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Aha! Interesting
I hadn't considered the headset height beyond thinking i might replace the spacers with nicer ones. I haven't found many Olympic models in my search
but here's an example that looks like mine, it's from 1974
These i think are all "fait main" i assume that means hand-made
My frame does have the "fait main" sticker
Also the Olympics i've seen do have my specific Reynolds sticker whereas TDFs don't seem to
For me what argues against full original Campagnolo, are the Mighty Chainset (perhaps in lieu of Stronglight 93)
and the Maillard style (Maillard made?) wheels, although being on MA2s could mean they are later replacements
I was briefly thinking it's an early Champion Du Monde, but that's not chromed at the rear
gah!
thanks
Ben |
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:15 pm |
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auchencrow |
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Joined: 09 Oct 2011 |
Posts: 53 |
Location: Detroit |
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Ben -
I don't think there are a whole lot of parts on your steed there that are original.
In fact, when I saw your bike, it immediately occurred to me that your bike and mine may have suffered the same fate: That is, a "Campy-ectomy" performed by some miscreant previous owner.
Mine was pretty much stripped as I received it, though the Campagnolo headset was still present.
Regardless, I decided to build mine up with mostly French parts - more like a Champion du Monde than an Olympic.
(Either model is uncommon here in the States, so I'm lucky to have it in either guise.)
- I am not really sure if there is any difference between these two models with respect to chrome plating on the rear stays: I thought it was just the components being French or Italian, though I could be wrong about that.
Anyway, when I see the tall head-stack, it does make me think "Olympic".
Whether you keep the Dura Ace group, or opt to restore it with suitable Campagnolo bits, it will still be a very fine machine. Enjoy! |
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| | | | | | | | | 1976 Tour de France | | | | | |
Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:03 am |
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verktyg |
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Joined: 14 Jan 2007 |
Posts: 2814 |
Location: SF Bay Area |
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Your bike looks like a 1976 Tour de France. They had the willow leaf brazed on caps on the seat stay caps with the stamped in Gitane logo.
The DuraAce components were later additions. The bike would have come with Huret Success derailleurs, the rear derailleur being partially titanium, MAFAC 2000 center pull brakes and either a Stronglight 93 or Sugino Mighty Competition crankset.
Here's a 1976 Bicycling Magazine review:
The DuraAce components were probably added as vanity items as the were one step down from Campy and in general worked as well. The rear derailleur shifted FAR better than Campy's.
The Huret Success derailleurs worked as well but because they were French, "got no respect"! |
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_________________ Chas.
SF Bay Area, CA USA
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1984 Criterium
1969 TdF
1971 TdF
1974 TdF
1984 TdF x 2 Bikes
1970 SC
1971 SC
1972 SC
1984 SC
1984 Team Pro
1985 Professional
1990s Team Replica |
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Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:41 am |
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auchencrow |
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Joined: 09 Oct 2011 |
Posts: 53 |
Location: Detroit |
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Chas - but what about the tall Campy-sized head-stack?? -and the FULL 531 decal?
(That steerer looks way to long to accommodate that SL headset without those huge spacers.) |
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Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:50 am |
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Hilly Ben |
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Joined: 17 Jul 2012 |
Posts: 4 |
Location: London, England |
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I was just about to ask the same
I had just come round to Auchen's way of thinking |
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Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:26 pm |
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sandranian |
Site Admin |
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Joined: 27 Feb 2006 |
Posts: 2701 |
Location: Southern California |
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Unless I missed something, the TdF in the article is full 531...
Not sure about the head stack issue... |
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| | | | | | | | | Not a P3 Headset | | | | | |
Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:41 pm |
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verktyg |
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Joined: 14 Jan 2007 |
Posts: 2814 |
Location: SF Bay Area |
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1. The headset on the OP's bike isn't a Stronglight P3. It's a standard Gitane headset like those used on Gran Sports which have a shorter stack height.
2. Notice the bike in the review has MAFAC Competition center pull brakes. There was about 2-3mm of space on the steering tube for the front brake cable hanger and an extra washer.
3. Yes you can "make" a Campy headset fit on a TdF fork but...
There's little or no room for the cable hanger and extra washer plus for maximum strength you should have 7 threads of engagement. Most headsets will only get about 5 threads of engagement on the steerer.
At best with a Campy headset on a TdF fork you are going to only get 3-4 threads of engagement onto the steering tube. This can result in frequent loosening of the headset.
Headsets that frequently come loose will end up prematurely failing from indentations in the races (mistakenly called brinelling or fretting).
When it comes to threading technology, don't swap spit with a rattlesnake or sword fight with Zoro!
I have 35 plus years of manufacturing experience dealing with threading issues! |
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_________________ Chas.
SF Bay Area, CA USA
==============
1984 Criterium
1969 TdF
1971 TdF
1974 TdF
1984 TdF x 2 Bikes
1970 SC
1971 SC
1972 SC
1984 SC
1984 Team Pro
1985 Professional
1990s Team Replica |
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Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:51 pm |
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verktyg |
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Joined: 14 Jan 2007 |
Posts: 2814 |
Location: SF Bay Area |
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auchencrow wrote: |
Chas - but what about the tall Campy-sized head-stack?? -and the FULL 531 decal?
(That steerer looks way to long to accommodate that SL headset without those huge spacers.) |
In 1976 Gitane went back to an all Reynolds 531 frame on the TdF (or at least most of them).
The steerer isn't "that" tall. The bike has a standard Gitane headset like used on Gran Sport models not a P3.
Stronglight P3 headsets have a 33mm stack height. The TdF steerers have about an extra 3mm length to allow for the front brake cable hanger plus an extra washer. That makes it ~36mm for the headset stack height.
The Standard Gitane headsets have only about a 30mm stack height. That's why it looks so high on this bike - check out the extra washers.
You can use a Campy headset on a TdF fork but it's going to be at least 5-8mm too high giving only a few threads of engagement and that's "without" a cable hanger and extra washer.
See my previous nastygram message... |
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_________________ Chas.
SF Bay Area, CA USA
==============
1984 Criterium
1969 TdF
1971 TdF
1974 TdF
1984 TdF x 2 Bikes
1970 SC
1971 SC
1972 SC
1984 SC
1984 Team Pro
1985 Professional
1990s Team Replica |
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Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:38 pm |
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auchencrow |
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Joined: 09 Oct 2011 |
Posts: 53 |
Location: Detroit |
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verktyg wrote: |
...
In 1976 Gitane went back to an all Reynolds 531 frame on the TdF (or at least most of them).
The steerer isn't "that" tall. The bike has a standard Gitane headset like used on Gran Sport models not a P3. |
That ^ would explain THAT!
(I assumed it was a Stronglight P3 because it looked a lot like the SL headset on one of my other non-Gitane bikes, and I forgot the TdF went to Full 531 in 1976.)
It seems there are only subtle differences in the frames between the various models, and where the components have been changed it gets harder to ID.
Thanks Chas. |
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Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:42 am |
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Hilly Ben |
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Joined: 17 Jul 2012 |
Posts: 4 |
Location: London, England |
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Thanks very much for all this info chaps. The headset height is indeed 30mm, 8mm of that being the spacers.
The question for me now is whether to keep the bike as it is or to replace the non original parts. I have a feeling that, although i handle vintage bike parts regularly, it will be a long search for those bits. But i'm used to that. I'm still only half-way through building a 1949 Hobbs Of Barbican to it's original spec.
Thanks, Ben |
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Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:12 pm |
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verktyg |
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Joined: 14 Jan 2007 |
Posts: 2814 |
Location: SF Bay Area |
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Hilly Ben wrote: |
The question for me now is whether to keep the bike as it is or to replace the non original parts.
Thanks, Ben |
If the paint and chrome were in very good condition I'd suggest restoring the bike to the original specs.
The paint is a little chipped - which can be touched up to hide the battle scars, but... the chrome show considerable rust.
You could have it re-chromed and repainted but unless you have some special attachment to the bike, that would be very expensive with very little chance of a return on your investment.
The components on your bike are decent quality and period correct. Many production model bikes from that era were stripped for their components and later rebuilt with a hodge podge of parts (that's why there a so many batard Gitanes floating around)
If it were my bike, I'd ride it like it is. |
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_________________ Chas.
SF Bay Area, CA USA
==============
1984 Criterium
1969 TdF
1971 TdF
1974 TdF
1984 TdF x 2 Bikes
1970 SC
1971 SC
1972 SC
1984 SC
1984 Team Pro
1985 Professional
1990s Team Replica |
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