gitaneusa.com Forum Index » Vintage Gitane » Gitane TDF? With Dura Ace    View previous topic :: View next topic  Gitane TDF? With Dura Ace   Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:00 am Hilly Ben Joined: 17 Jul 2012 Posts: 4 Location: London, England Hello Everyone My name's Ben from London, England. I recently picked up this Gitane. Yesterday actually. Research so far leads me to believe it is a 1976 Tour De France model. I haven't seen any other examples built with Shimano Dura Ace. In fact it looks like Dura Ace EX which Velobase lists as beginning in 1978. The frame has a "Shimano Dura Ace Series Components" sticker on the DT so i believe it to be originally built with DA Full list Frame - Reynolds 531 Wheels - rear 'Aldo' high flange hub, front 'New Star' high flange hub Both on Mavic MA2 rims. Aldo has circular flange cutouts like Campagnolo Tipo, New Star has Maillard style cutouts Gears- Dura Ace EX Brakes - Dura Ace EX Chainset - Sugino Mighty, french thread Bars/Stem - both Ambrosio Seatpin - 3TTT 26.4 Saddle - San Marco Unknown Headset - Stronglight? no marking BB - Sugino Pedals - Iberia Extras - Dura Ace top tube clips, various Shimano gear cable guides One interesting feature is the Campagnolo drop bolt on the rear caliper of which i've only ever seen two in the flesh. I'm not sure why the rear should require one but the front does not Here are the pictures, Any thoughts or confirmation of model would be much welcomed Many Thanks Ben London England   Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:24 pm auchencrow Joined: 09 Oct 2011 Posts: 53 Location: Detroit Hi Ben! The sticker doesn't convince me that the DA group is original. The fact that a drop bolt had to be installed for the rear brake strongly suggests to me it is a substitute for the group that originally came with the bike. I'm also with you on the '76 date based on the honeycomb dropouts. Those extra-thick, cast-iron-looking headset spacers may indicate that the original headset was a taller Campagnolo headset. - If so, then my hunch is that your bike is an Olympic, not a Tdf, and someone made off with the Campagnolo group. _________________ Auchen   Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:02 pm Hilly Ben Joined: 17 Jul 2012 Posts: 4 Location: London, England Aha! Interesting I hadn't considered the headset height beyond thinking i might replace the spacers with nicer ones. I haven't found many Olympic models in my search but here's an example that looks like mine, it's from 1974 These i think are all "fait main" i assume that means hand-made My frame does have the "fait main" sticker Also the Olympics i've seen do have my specific Reynolds sticker whereas TDFs don't seem to For me what argues against full original Campagnolo, are the Mighty Chainset (perhaps in lieu of Stronglight 93) and the Maillard style (Maillard made?) wheels, although being on MA2s could mean they are later replacements I was briefly thinking it's an early Champion Du Monde, but that's not chromed at the rear gah! thanks Ben   Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:15 pm auchencrow Joined: 09 Oct 2011 Posts: 53 Location: Detroit Ben - I don't think there are a whole lot of parts on your steed there that are original. In fact, when I saw your bike, it immediately occurred to me that your bike and mine may have suffered the same fate: That is, a "Campy-ectomy" performed by some miscreant previous owner. Mine was pretty much stripped as I received it, though the Campagnolo headset was still present. Regardless, I decided to build mine up with mostly French parts - more like a Champion du Monde than an Olympic. (Either model is uncommon here in the States, so I'm lucky to have it in either guise.) - I am not really sure if there is any difference between these two models with respect to chrome plating on the rear stays: I thought it was just the components being French or Italian, though I could be wrong about that. Anyway, when I see the tall head-stack, it does make me think "Olympic". Whether you keep the Dura Ace group, or opt to restore it with suitable Campagnolo bits, it will still be a very fine machine. Enjoy! _________________ Auchen 1976 Tour de France   Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:03 am verktyg Joined: 14 Jan 2007 Posts: 2814 Location: SF Bay Area Your bike looks like a 1976 Tour de France. They had the willow leaf brazed on caps on the seat stay caps with the stamped in Gitane logo. The DuraAce components were later additions. The bike would have come with Huret Success derailleurs, the rear derailleur being partially titanium, MAFAC 2000 center pull brakes and either a Stronglight 93 or Sugino Mighty Competition crankset. Here's a 1976 Bicycling Magazine review: The DuraAce components were probably added as vanity items as the were one step down from Campy and in general worked as well. The rear derailleur shifted FAR better than Campy's. The Huret Success derailleurs worked as well but because they were French, "got no respect"! _________________ Chas. SF Bay Area, CA USA ============== 1984 Criterium 1969 TdF 1971 TdF 1974 TdF 1984 TdF x 2 Bikes 1970 SC 1971 SC 1972 SC 1984 SC 1984 Team Pro 1985 Professional 1990s Team Replica   Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:41 am auchencrow Joined: 09 Oct 2011 Posts: 53 Location: Detroit Chas - but what about the tall Campy-sized head-stack?? -and the FULL 531 decal? (That steerer looks way to long to accommodate that SL headset without those huge spacers.) _________________ Auchen   Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:50 am Hilly Ben Joined: 17 Jul 2012 Posts: 4 Location: London, England I was just about to ask the same I had just come round to Auchen's way of thinking   Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:26 pm sandranian Site Admin Joined: 27 Feb 2006 Posts: 2701 Location: Southern California Unless I missed something, the TdF in the article is full 531... Not sure about the head stack issue... _________________ Stephan Andranian Costa Mesa, CA www.gitaneusa.com Not a P3 Headset   Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:41 pm verktyg Joined: 14 Jan 2007 Posts: 2814 Location: SF Bay Area 1. The headset on the OP's bike isn't a Stronglight P3. It's a standard Gitane headset like those used on Gran Sports which have a shorter stack height. 2. Notice the bike in the review has MAFAC Competition center pull brakes. There was about 2-3mm of space on the steering tube for the front brake cable hanger and an extra washer. 3. Yes you can "make" a Campy headset fit on a TdF fork but... There's little or no room for the cable hanger and extra washer plus for maximum strength you should have 7 threads of engagement. Most headsets will only get about 5 threads of engagement on the steerer. At best with a Campy headset on a TdF fork you are going to only get 3-4 threads of engagement onto the steering tube. This can result in frequent loosening of the headset. Headsets that frequently come loose will end up prematurely failing from indentations in the races (mistakenly called brinelling or fretting). When it comes to threading technology, don't swap spit with a rattlesnake or sword fight with Zoro! I have 35 plus years of manufacturing experience dealing with threading issues! _________________ Chas. SF Bay Area, CA USA ============== 1984 Criterium 1969 TdF 1971 TdF 1974 TdF 1984 TdF x 2 Bikes 1970 SC 1971 SC 1972 SC 1984 SC 1984 Team Pro 1985 Professional 1990s Team Replica   Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:51 pm verktyg Joined: 14 Jan 2007 Posts: 2814 Location: SF Bay Area auchencrow wrote: Chas - but what about the tall Campy-sized head-stack?? -and the FULL 531 decal? (That steerer looks way to long to accommodate that SL headset without those huge spacers.) In 1976 Gitane went back to an all Reynolds 531 frame on the TdF (or at least most of them). The steerer isn't "that" tall. The bike has a standard Gitane headset like used on Gran Sport models not a P3. Stronglight P3 headsets have a 33mm stack height. The TdF steerers have about an extra 3mm length to allow for the front brake cable hanger plus an extra washer. That makes it ~36mm for the headset stack height. The Standard Gitane headsets have only about a 30mm stack height. That's why it looks so high on this bike - check out the extra washers. You can use a Campy headset on a TdF fork but it's going to be at least 5-8mm too high giving only a few threads of engagement and that's "without" a cable hanger and extra washer. See my previous nastygram message... _________________ Chas. SF Bay Area, CA USA ============== 1984 Criterium 1969 TdF 1971 TdF 1974 TdF 1984 TdF x 2 Bikes 1970 SC 1971 SC 1972 SC 1984 SC 1984 Team Pro 1985 Professional 1990s Team Replica   Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:38 pm auchencrow Joined: 09 Oct 2011 Posts: 53 Location: Detroit verktyg wrote: ... In 1976 Gitane went back to an all Reynolds 531 frame on the TdF (or at least most of them). The steerer isn't "that" tall. The bike has a standard Gitane headset like used on Gran Sport models not a P3. That ^ would explain THAT! (I assumed it was a Stronglight P3 because it looked a lot like the SL headset on one of my other non-Gitane bikes, and I forgot the TdF went to Full 531 in 1976.) It seems there are only subtle differences in the frames between the various models, and where the components have been changed it gets harder to ID. Thanks Chas. _________________ Auchen   Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:42 am Hilly Ben Joined: 17 Jul 2012 Posts: 4 Location: London, England Thanks very much for all this info chaps. The headset height is indeed 30mm, 8mm of that being the spacers. The question for me now is whether to keep the bike as it is or to replace the non original parts. I have a feeling that, although i handle vintage bike parts regularly, it will be a long search for those bits. But i'm used to that. I'm still only half-way through building a 1949 Hobbs Of Barbican to it's original spec. Thanks, Ben   Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:12 pm verktyg Joined: 14 Jan 2007 Posts: 2814 Location: SF Bay Area Hilly Ben wrote: The question for me now is whether to keep the bike as it is or to replace the non original parts. Thanks, Ben If the paint and chrome were in very good condition I'd suggest restoring the bike to the original specs. The paint is a little chipped - which can be touched up to hide the battle scars, but... the chrome show considerable rust. You could have it re-chromed and repainted but unless you have some special attachment to the bike, that would be very expensive with very little chance of a return on your investment. The components on your bike are decent quality and period correct. Many production model bikes from that era were stripped for their components and later rebuilt with a hodge podge of parts (that's why there a so many batard Gitanes floating around) If it were my bike, I'd ride it like it is. _________________ Chas. SF Bay Area, CA USA ============== 1984 Criterium 1969 TdF 1971 TdF 1974 TdF 1984 TdF x 2 Bikes 1970 SC 1971 SC 1972 SC 1984 SC 1984 Team Pro 1985 Professional 1990s Team Replica Gitane TDF? 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