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lynnef

not. (1971 TdF professional)

I've got a Sugino BB with a 113mm asymmetric spindle. Old square taper, as opposed to modern square taper.

It absolutely does not work with my Stronglight Impact crank, which wants a modern square taper 110mm symmetric spindle.

The smart bicycle folks here have suggested just getting a spindle. They are looking into their stash of old parts, to see if they've got one. I've rummaged the internet, and not found one.

Pic of the existing bottom bracket:

Thoughts? Sources?

verktyg

Lynn,

The best but most expensive solution is to get a Phil Wood sealed bearing bottom bracket. I have one that I bought in 1975. It's been in 3-4 different bikes and it still works great. I got a used one with bad bearings for free. I sent it back to Phil and they replaced the bearings for $35.00.

The next best thing is to get a set of Phil French thread rings and a Phil tool. Find one of the inexpensive sealed bearing bottom brackets on the market that have both cups removable. Most of them will fit into the Phil rings. You will have an adjustable BB that never needs servicing.

Last suggestion, Sutherland's Handbook for Bicycle Mechanics has a whole section on BB interchangeability. Any good bike should have a copy and they can probably get a workable BB spindle for you. My copy is too old to list your crankset so I can't help you there.

Chas.

lynnef

My mechanic friend told me the best way to show the love for this bike was to buy it a Phil Smile

That would be the last option. It has already gotten a new crank, new seat, and new brake levers. We won't discuss the assumed new cables, housing, brake pads and tires...

Tell me more about getting the Phil French cups and a standard bottom bracket. Don't I have to grind something off, as well? I saw something about this on someone's blog. Or can I just pop it in? He said the Shimano UN-72 had both cups removable, but not the newer ones.

Of course, we can hope that my packrat friends have a 110mm spindle in their parts collection...

verktyg

When you first posted that you were getting a new Stronglight crank, I suggested that you may need to get a new BB. I'm not familiar with all of these new fangled cranks. Confused

Just curious, what kind of problems are you having with the old spindle? A 110mm spindle is only 3mm (1/8") shorter than a 113mm one. How much does the old spindle mess up the chain line?

I've heard lots of stories about the differences in new and old spindles and crank arms. I'm of the opinion that many bike components were not made all that accurately because I've successfully used parts that weren't supposed to work. For example I ran TA cranks on a Shimano sealed bearing BB for years on my MTB. When I changed cranks on that I bike I reused the TA cranks on a road bike with a real TA spindle and they still fit properly. Don't beleive everything that you think.... Wink

The Phil steel rings sell for around $38-$40 for the pair plus the cost of the Phil tool to tighten them. I've tried them and they fit pretty well on some older Shimano cartridges also several other brands where both cups are removable. They're buried in the bowels of several of my bikes and I don't remember the details any more, sorry.

Chas.

lynnef

The crank doesn't need a "newfangled" bottom bracket. A modern square taper is all it wants. The existing spindle is an older square taper, and they aren't the same. The crank doesn't fit on it snugly.

Also, the 113mm is asymmetrical, so it sticks out even further than the extra 1.5mm you think it would. But as the crank doesn't even work with the spindle, it is a non-starter.

verktyg

Lynn,

My suggestion to locate a copy of Sutherland's book would probably save you a lot of time finding a solution to your problem. There are several pages devoted to spindle/crank compatibility. It will tell you which components can be interchanged.

Stronglight used the same basic dimensions on their bottom brackets for over 50 years, same thing with TA. They had different length spindles for single, double and triple crankset plus some additional lengths.

In the early 1980s Campagnolo started messing around with symmetrical bottom bracket spindles but they switched back and forth with asymmetrical spindles for the same family of cranks several times during that decade.

I use older model Stronglight cranks on a number of my retro bikes. I wasn't aware that Stronglight had gone the same route as Campy, thus "new fangled".

Here's a link to Phil's web site that shows the differences in spindle tapers:

http://www.philwood.com/crank%20axles.htm

Your Sugino spindle has a JIS (more or less) taper. The Stronglight cranks require either an ISO or JIS Low Profile taper spindle. The taper angle on most spindles is the same - 2° per side.

The difference is the size of the small end and the taper length. That determines how far the spindle goes into the taper. It should fit so that the spindle end is 2-3mm short of coming out of the tapered area of the crank when tightened and not run out of taper on the big end. The usual torque for tightening crank arm bolts is 20-30 Foot Lbs. measured with a torque wrench.

You may have a problem finding the correct spindle in someone's old junk box. A local bike "junk yard" has a box with over 100 old spindles. I went through about half on them one day trying to find a specific length spindle.

Manufactures list spindle lengths but the dimensions are "nominal". Spindles that were marked 110mm ranged from 109mm to almost 112mm. So if you find a spindle with the correct taper that fits your cranks, it will probably work OK if it's within that range. One or two mm longer is better than too short.

BTW, a Shimano UN-72 BB cartridge may not work because they have the JIS taper.

Good luck,

Chas.

lynnef

The Stronglight crank I've got is really Sugino crankarms and Stronglight chainrings...

Google the Stronglight Impact Compact Double crankset; you'll see what I mean. Dead ringer for the crankarms on my Sugino triple.

The recommended bottom bracket can be seen at Velo Orange. It is a JIS taper. I would have purchased it, but only one cup is removable.

lynnef

Life will be good:
http://www.cyclingforums.com/archive/index.php/t-223705.html

Got the bb on eBay. Now to get the Phil cups. tools are not an issue; I have friends...

lynnef

and a friend posted to the local bike racing group, and it started raining bottom brackets...

I got an English thread cup-and-cone bb with an appropriate spindle, and effected a transplant. It seems to be ok.

http://lynnerides.blogspot.com

Of course, there are many other challenge$ awaiting