gitaneusa.com :: View topic - Unidentified Gitane (full 531Reynolds, Campy Fork-ends, etc)

Kinst VonSterga

I just purchased this Gitane from eBay (impulse 'buy-now' the minute it appeared) as I thought it was absolutely gorgeous from the lugs down to its French/slightly pearlescent blue and old vintage campy parts. Unfortunately I have absolutely no idea what model of Gitane this is. IF ANYONE CAN HELP ME IDENTIFY MODEL & YEAR THAT WOULD BE AWESOME!

The frame dimensions are 23.5" seat-tube (59.69cm c-t) and 23" top-tube (58.42cm c-c). It has the number "73" stamped on the seat-lug and "BM" stamped on the head-lug, both of which have beautiful long tips/spires. The fork ends are stamped "Campagnolo" and a number "110" or "011" is stamped on the rear dropouts, assuming they are "Huret"?. The dropouts, chain & seatstays are all chromed. The forks are fully chromed but the top half of the fork was once painted the same/original color as the frame. The long-spires found on the lugs are not present on the top fork crown/side. The seat-tube has an older-style French "Diagonal Reynolds 531" sticker on it, the kind with no subtext in gold listing Reynolds Tube LTD or TI Reynolds etc).

The original parts include Campy Tipo hi-flange hubs, Campy Nuovo front/rear dérailleur (stamped "Pat. 71") and bottom Campy bottom bracket which looks to be Nuovo Record too. The brake levers are drilled levers and I think they're old Campy Super Record? The stem is TTT and the handlebars and seatpost don't seem to be original, but they are beautifully made with Sakae Champion Road handlebars, and an unknown SR model for the seatpost. The seat looks like its from Ideale, but the model/stamp is worn smooth. I don't know if the B.S.A. cranks are original or not to the bicycle, but them seem to be as old as the rest of the components.

Depending on the feedback received, I may look into getting the frame professionally restored (should it be repainted, existing paint 'patched', stickers replaced, etc ?) and do you folks recommend a specialist in this field that can properly bring this thing back to its original/new state?

Thanks in Advance!

verktyg

Kinst,

Was this bike purchased in Europe or somewhere else?

In 1973 Gitane offered around 15 different models in the US. After the US Bike Boom bubble burst in 1974 the offering dropped to 5-6 models. By 1976 it was only 4-5 models. Up through 1973 the Tour de France was Gitane's next to the top racing model made with Reynolds 531 butted tubing and Simplex forged dropouts.

The first of the new style 1974 Tour de France bikes only had the 3 main tubes made with Reynolds 531 tubing. The rest of the tubes were made from some other kind of light weight tubing. They used Huret "honeycomb" rear dropouts and Huret, Simplex or maybe Campy front dropouts.

Around 1974 Reynolds switched from this style decal:

To this newer design:

The Reynolds decal on your seat tube could have been a replacement but it's probably genuine because French Reynolds stickers were just about impossible to get. This would indicate that it's probably a 1974 but maybe not the same as the Tour de France bikes made for the US market.

The 1974 Gitane TdFs had Stronglight P3 headsets, Stronglight 93 cranks, Lyotard 460D alloy pedals, Huret Challenger derailleurs, Mafac brakes, and an Ideale 80 saddle on a plain steel or alloy seat pin. The wheels were alloy clinchers??? mounted on Campy Nuovo Tipo high flange hubs.

The forks were originally 1/2 painted and 1/2 chrome and so were the rear stays. In 1974 Gitane switched to long point Bocama (BM or BCM) lugs with cutouts. The 73 is the angle of the lugs not the date of manufacture.

Your bike looks like it's been partially assembled from a mix of components or maybe it's been upgraded over time (both of which were common on a bike of this vintage). For example the Pat.71 Campy rear derailleur was made in 1971 while the front dérailleur has the CPSC "lips" form a later date after 1977.

The saddle looks like an Ideale model 39 which was their entry level model. The seatpost is an SR premium model. The headset looks like a Tange Levin. The TTT is far better than the original stem the bike came with. The cranks that you are referring to as B.S.A. were made by Nervar and B.S.A. indicates that they are threaded for 9/16-14 British threads not 14mm metric threads that the bike would have come with.

It's a classic bike you should ride for a while to see if you like it before you consider doing any restoration. I prefer my bikes to have a little patina. Bikes that are too pretty tend not to get ridden.

Enjoy,

Chas.

Kinst VonSterga

>LT> First of all, thank you very much Chas for such a quick response (and sharing your knowledge about these bicycles)! Here's my best attempt to answering your questions below.

Was this bike purchased in Europe or somewhere else?

>LT> I don't know where it was original purchased, sorry. Does the picture of the serial number contain any usable information?

Around 1974 Reynolds switched from this style decal:

>LT> There's no evidence that a Reynolds sticker existed on the down-tube anywhere and the above version is definitely what's on the seat tube, as there's no space or reference to either Reynolds Tube Co. or TI Reynolds LTD. The original sticker must have been mangled by a bicycle stand clamp, though I can still make out all of its parts likes a jigsaw puzzle (my wife helped). I found the same replacement sticker on ebay, but the 531 on the replacement is more green, while the one on the frame is more "blue-green" in color.

The Reynolds decal on your seat tube could have been a replacement but it's probably genuine because French Reynolds stickers were just about impossible to get. This would indicate that it's probably a 1974 but maybe not the same as the Tour de France bikes made for the US market.

>LT> On a side note, the "gitane" (not "cycles gitane)" exists on the down tube/seat tube stickers. The color is more flourescent yellow with a green tint + blue/green outline. I don't know if the green tint is due to the blue showing through the yellow, but it differs from the replacement gitane stickers offered by cyclomondo

The wheels were alloy clinchers??? mounted on Campy Nuovo Tipo high flange hubs.

>LT> The rims are alloy clinchers, Mavic MA-2's.

The forks were originally 1/2 painted and 1/2 chrome and so were the rear stays. In 1974 Gitane switched to long point Bocama (BM or BCM) lugs with cutouts. The 73 is the angle of the lugs not the date of manufacture.

>LT> The forks are fully chromed, but the top half was once painted the same blue as the frame. Were the original crowns painted, or left chromed like the bottom half of the fork? So the fork ends are Campy, but the catacomb rear dropouts are Huret or Simplex?

Your bike looks like it's been partially assembled from a mix of components or maybe it's been upgraded over time (both of which were common on a bike of this vintage). For example the Pat.71 Campy rear derailleur was made in 1971 while the front dérailleur has the CPSC "lips" form a later date after 1977.

>LT> Thnx! This helps me know which parts to swap out for more period-correct vintage year, brand and model.

The saddle looks like an Ideale model 39 which was their entry level model. The seatpost is an SR premium model. The headset looks like a Tange Levin. The TTT is far better than the original stem the bike came with. The cranks that you are referring to as B.S.A. were made by Nervar and B.S.A. indicates that they are threaded for 9/16-14 British threads not 14mm metric threads that the bike would have come with.

>LT> Assuming the frame is a late 1973 to early 1974 vintage, what brand/model of bottom-bracket would have come with the frame? And just to confirm, Stronglight 93 cranks would have appeared with it?

It's a classic bike you should ride for a while to see if you like it before you consider doing any restoration. I prefer my bikes to have a little patina. Bikes that are too pretty tend not to get ridden.

>LT> The frame geometry (fit) is very nice. I'm 6'.05" and my inseam is 33.5" and the dimensions seem to fit me like a glove. So this thing is doomed for many more road-miles before its shelved on a display wall/stand. The restoration would be to remove all surface rust, though the tubes inside look pretty good using a flash-light, treat the inside tubes and repair the paint/stickers or do a complete repaint, though you're right, the patina definitely has a charm to it).

>LT> Would it be safe to assume that this is a Tour-de-France model then? If not, which year/model does it better resemble? Perhaps a flummoxed Frenchman used the wrong parts from his parts bin between his hourly cigarette break and brazing sessions?

Enjoy,

Chas.

sandranian · Site Admin

Looks like a Tour de France to me. I think that Chas wanted to know if you bought it on US ebay or a european ebay....

I wouldn't repaint unless it was absolutely necessary. The "proper" decals are the yellow ones available from Cyclomondo...which a number of people on this site helped him to create.

Your's appears to be about a circa 1976, and is clearly a quality bike: Reynolds 531 throughout, with the chromed chainstays, which is nice. I am a bit puzzled by the full chrome fork, and wonder if someone didn't remove the paint. Any thoughts on that?

Also, the cable guides on the bottom bracket shell appear to have been added after production.

verktyg

Kinst,

> Was this bike purchased in Europe or somewhere else?

What I was getting at is Gitane sold different models in Europe (and perhaps Australia) than were marketed in the US. For example Huret Allvit derailleurs were still produced up into the early 80s and some folks thought they they shifted pretty well (but the same folks probably thought that Jerry Lewis was great too).

Gitane serial numbers were produced by a random number generator... Laughing

There doesn't seem to be any logic to Gitane serial numbers.

Bike manufacturers started putting the tubing decals on the down tube near the shift levers because the repair stand clamps grabbed the bike by the seat tube and munged the decals.

Reynolds used a number of different sources for their decals and the 531 characters could be anything from gray-green to aqua to kelly green.

Starting in 1974 Gitane used yellow or green decals like yours. The green tint is due to the blue showing through. Decals with Cycles Gitane didn't come out until later.

Mavic Ma-2 rims didn't come along until the 80s. The originals were probably Mavic Module E rims made to work with the newly introduced Michelin Elan tires. They may have been 27" x 3/4" for the US market or 700x19c for Europe.

The cranks on this bike were probably Stronglight 93 with 35mmx1mm French cups and a 118mm wide bottom bracket axle. Gitane used lower cost 3 arm Nevar cranks on the next model down Interclub. In a jamb they could have used the Nevar cranks on a TdF but certainly not with a Campy BB (French frugality).

It's almost certainly a 1974, early 1975 frame. Gitane changed to the Huret "Honeycomb" rear dropout and decals like your in early to mid 1974. It could be one of the made for Europe models which had a full Reynolds 531 frame. The TdFs sold in the US in 1974 only had 3 main tubes made of Reynolds tubing. Also, only the forks were chromed. The rear triangle was painted.

There is also a possibility that it's a European model that was the next step up from the TdF and may have been equipped with Campy components... but it would have had derailleurs made ~1984 and yours are not. Also, I would think that an all Campy Gitane would have been built with Campy rear dropouts.

After the US Bike Boom ended in mid 1974 there weren't many Gitanes brought into the US. The better model Gitanes were pretty rare because of the exchange rate and other reasons. Motobecanes, Peugeots, Raleighs plus the newer Japanese makes that were just starting to arrive in the US had better components and/or sold for less money than comparable Gitane bikes. They were way overpriced so we brought very few into our shop and had to sell them at reduced prices to clear them out.

Gitane Tour de France bikes seem to be fairly common but they're not. It's more that the lower priced Gitanes (and most of the other Bike Boom era bikes) long ago became Toyotas, Hyundais or refrigerators... Twisted Evil

As I mentioned before, you should ride the bike for a while before making any changes. have fun...

Chas.

Kinst VonSterga

>LT> Hi Sandranian.

Looks like a Tour de France to me. I think that Chas wanted to know if you bought it on US ebay or a european ebay....

>LT> The gitane was purchased on US eBay.

I wouldn't repaint unless it was absolutely necessary. The "proper" decals are the yellow ones available from Cyclomondo...which a number of people on this site helped him to create.

Your's appears to be about a circa 1976, and is clearly a quality bike: Reynolds 531 throughout, with the chromed chainstays, which is nice. I am a bit puzzled by the full chrome fork, and wonder if someone didn't remove the paint. Any thoughts on that?

>LT> The paint was definitely removed from the fork, but whomever did it was not thorough as some of the blue paint remains on the upper inside fork blades near the fork crown.

Also, the cable guides on the bottom bracket shell appear to have been added after production.

>LT> What would have been the correct/authenticate cable guides used for this model?

>LT> Thnx!

sandranian · Site Admin

Bikes of this vintage (and I agree with Chas. regarding the dating of this frameset) would use clamp-on cable guides.

verktyg

I forgot to mention the interesting homemade cable guides under the bottom bracket. As you mentioned, it would have had a clamp-on cable guide, probably Huret.

Chas.

Gtane

Some polish, love and care and you're riding away with a great machine with lots of history. I'd avoid a respray as has been said earlier as it looks much better with its life marks. Thanks for posting.

Tim

Kinst VonSterga

verktyg

Kinst,

First let me qualify my responses: I worked at several bike shops that sold Gitanes during the 70s. I also owned at least 5 Gitanes during that time. For a number of reasons we moved away from Gitane as a brand sometime around 1976 so my expertise about later model Gitanes falls off fast.

Others here have personal experience collecting/riding/racing Gitanes. We try to share our combined knowledge of Gitanes on this website.

1. The Reynolds sticker says in French that the tubes, forks and rear triangle are made of 531 tubing. The forks probably had at least 1 triangular Reynolds decal on the left fork blade and maybe a Gitane Tour de France decal on the right fork blade.

2. The original headset was most likely a Stronglight P3 with French threads.

3. 1974 was the end of the Bike Boom in the US. During the same time Gitane changed distributors/importers, models and decals. The former distributor Mel Pinto was a long time wholesaler of sporting bikes. My opinion was that Gitane Pacific was just in it for the commercial aspects (I'm not sure whether it was a US subsidiary of Gitane or a privately owned enterprise).

It was not uncommon for mid range European bikes to have only the 3 main tubes made from a premium tubing like Reynolds or Columbus and the remaining tubes made of gas pipe or whatever. Rolling Eyes

This was a marketing ploy and many consumers thought that they were getting a better bike than they actually bought because of the brand name tubing decals. Most people still don't understand what the decals refer to. You are better off with a frame made with gas pipe main tubes and premium forks and stays than the other way around because the front and back are what give a bike a sporting ride (or not).

I've seen some mid 70s Tour de France frames with all Reynolds tubes and I've seen some Interclubs (the next model down) with 3 Tubes Reynolds decals. Gitane seems to have dropped the 3 main tubes folly on later model bikes. The savings from not using Reynolds forks and stays was probably no more than about $10-$15 USD per bike. Confused

Before 1974 the Super Corsa was the top road bike that Gitane sold in the US. They had Reynolds 531 tubes, Campy dropouts (some times Huret or Simplex fork ends) and all Campy components except for Mafac brakes. Campy brakes were a mythical options. All of the SCs that I saw with Campy brakes had them installed by the dealer.

The Super Corsa components were all Record or Nuovo Record. Super Record while introduced in 1974 wasn't readily available (if ever) until late 1975. Tour de France bikes from the early to mid 1970s NEVER came with Campy components except for Nuovo Tipo hubs (with the round holes).

A lot of owners updated their TdFs to Campy components but they didn't come that way until much later. In actuality, Stronglight 93 cranks shifted better than Campys, the Huret Challenger rear derailleurs shifted FAR better than anything Crampy had until the very late 80s. Even plastic Simplex derailleurs when well lubed and adjusted shifted better than Crampy R, NR & SR dérailleurs. Campagnolo didn't change the basic design of their rear derailleurs from the early 60s until the late 80s! Razz

If you look through the various catalogs from the 1970s you will see a lot of different model Gitanes in the French catalogs than were available in the US. Also many of the French bikes had different components. Mel Pinto knew how to market Gitanes in the US!

http://www.gitaneusa.com/catalogues01.asp

By now you should have gathered that I don't worship sacred cows (or fads)... Twisted Evil

If the Reynolds 531 decal on your frame is original then it highly probable that it's a 1974 model. If you search through some of my posts you'll see the logic that I use to guess the age of a bike. Wink

Enjoy,

Chas.

Kinst VonSterga

verktyg

Didn't you mention that you had a Crampy NR crankset?

The old Nervar cranks were more than adequate but finding chainrings to change the gearing can be a real chore as they have been obsolete for 20+ years. I'd switch to the Campy cranks because the 144mm chainrings are easy to find.

With a little fussing you can get the NR rear derailleur to handle up to a 28T rear sprocket (if you need lower gears than you have).

You can usually find Campy BB cables guides on eBay for $10-$15:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Campagnolo-Down-Tube-Cable-Guide-Clamp_W0QQitemZ230256521829QQihZ013QQcategoryZ42330QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

"It never gets easier, you just go faster." Greg LeMond

Enjoy your "batard". Wink

Chas.

verktyg

Kinst,

Check out the message I posted: Old Tour de France on French eBay

It shows some of the differences between a bike made for the US market and one for the European market.

Chas.