| | | | | | | | | Bottom Bracket - 1973 TdF | | | | | |
Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 2:58 pm |
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natprice |
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Joined: 16 Oct 2007 |
Posts: 35 |
Location: Gainesville, FL |
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Does anybody know the dimensions for the bottom brackets on the old Tour de France bikes from about 1973 or 74'? Is locktight usually needed to keep the bottom bracket from becoming loose? Are the dimensions listed on the Sheldon Brown website (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/bbsize.html)? Also does anybody know what size tools I would need and where I could get them?
Any help would be great!
Thanks |
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Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 3:53 pm |
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vanhelmont |
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Joined: 11 Dec 2007 |
Posts: 242 |
Location: Florida |
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The bb dimensions are given under the "Threading Standards" section, the "French" line. Ideally loctite is not needed, per the resident expert, Verktyg.
I use a big crescent wrench on the fixed cup, same as I always have on British bb's, and a pin spanner which any bike shop should have on the adjustable cup. My lock ring, which is TA, just has little square indentations to tighten it with a wrench that would probably be similar to a lot of other bottom brackets, but when I get it finger tight I put a block of wood against one of the notches and hit it with my hand to tighten it a little more. I've never had one come loose like that, and it doesn't mar the ring. Removal is just the reverse, tap it with the wood block in the other direction.
Good luck with it.
Dave |
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| | | | | | | | | TdF BB | | | | | |
Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 5:43 pm |
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verktyg |
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Joined: 14 Jan 2007 |
Posts: 2814 |
Location: SF Bay Area |
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The threads are 35mm diameter by 1mm pitch (35x1, 35mmx1mm, M35x1.0, etc). Turn counterclockwise to loosen, clockwise to tighten.
All of the Gitanes that I've seen from the 70s and earlier have both sides right hand threads (unlike British or ISO BB cups which have left hand threads on the right hand fixed cup side).
Left hand threads on the fixed cup are supposed to be less likely to come loose. I've had a few French right side fixed cups come loose while riding.
If the fixed cup easily screws all the way in by hand then I'd suggest using a little bit of blue Loctite on that cup. If it's tight don't worry about it.
Does your TdF have Stronglight or Sugino cranks? Sugino BB components are pretty much interchangeable with Campy NR parts from the early 70s.
One suggestion, get a long 1/2" or larger bolt and nut plus several large flat washers at least 1 1/2" in diameter. Remove the adjustable cup and axle and put the bolt through the BB with a washer on each side. Place the wrench or adjustable wrench over the fixed cup and hand tighten the nut.
The washer on the outside of the wrench will help keep it from slipping off the fixed cup as you break it loose.
Chas. |
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| | | | | | | | | a handy tip | | | | | |
Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 7:26 pm |
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smilingroadrunner |
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Joined: 10 Aug 2007 |
Posts: 278 |
Location: Salina, Ks. |
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Thanks, Chas for the tip about utilizing a bolt and washers to help hold the adjustable wrench on the fixed cup, a handy way to avoid marring the fixed cup and/or bottom bracket.
Hope your feeling better as the weekend progress.
Not to rub it in ---but before tomorrow's returning wintery blast to the plains, it was a balmy 68 degrees, albeit windy 30-35mph gusts this afternoon. It was nice to get off the Kreitlers and out of the basement, onto the streets today.
At 9pm this evening, 57 degrees and winds moving to the northwest from the southernly flow earlier today. Well it was fun while it lasted.
Again thanks for the tip for the forum members.
Peace & Good Health to all !! Lots of helpful information shared this year, Thanks Stephan, What a great site, and What a great resource.
I Like Steel !!!
________________
C.A. in Salina, Ks. |
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Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 7:46 am |
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sandranian |
Site Admin |
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Joined: 27 Feb 2006 |
Posts: 2701 |
Location: Southern California |
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It is freezing here in SoCal. There is actually some frost on the grass on the lawn. Clear blue skies...but it should only warm up to 60 degrees today. Talk about the dead of winter...Brrrrr!!! |
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| | | | | | | | | CA Weather | | | | | |
Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:25 pm |
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verktyg |
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Joined: 14 Jan 2007 |
Posts: 2814 |
Location: SF Bay Area |
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Stephan,
It's ~50° F here in the Bay Area. It was nice and clear all morning with no wind but the clouds are moving in this afternoon.
I missed the last Classic Rendezvous ride of the year today.
Thanks Santa for bringing me the plague.
Chas. |
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| | | | | | | | | surfing | | | | | |
Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 4:21 pm |
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natprice |
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Joined: 16 Oct 2007 |
Posts: 35 |
Location: Gainesville, FL |
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yeah, it was so warm in St. Augustine, fl that we were out surfing with no wetsuits today. caught some bluefish and whiting too! |
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Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:06 pm |
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natprice |
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Joined: 16 Oct 2007 |
Posts: 35 |
Location: Gainesville, FL |
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I tried getting it tightened and I tried getting it tightened again with Loctite. After only a couple weeks of short commuting though the bottom bracket is already quite loose.
I took the bike to a shop about a year ago when the bottom bracket was making this grinding noise and they said they "fixed" it but I am not sure what they did but I thought they replaced something in the bottom bracket with a used part. I went back there again after painting and reassembling the frame to get the bottom bracket tightened and they said they didn't have the right size tools to tighten it or take it apart. So this makes me very uneasy about whatever they did when they worked on it a while ago.
My new bike mechanic seems to think the threads are just old and that I should look into a replacement. He is also my age though, 20, so I am not too sure he knows what he is talking about when it comes to these old bikes...haha
Where do I go from here? |
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| | | | | | | | | Re: surfing | | | | | |
Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:26 pm |
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verktyg |
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Joined: 14 Jan 2007 |
Posts: 2814 |
Location: SF Bay Area |
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natprice wrote: |
yeah, it was so warm in St. Augustine, fl that we were out surfing with no wetsuits today. caught some bluefish and whiting too! |
DUDE!
Surfing in Florida?
It's time for the Annual MAVERICKS contest here in Norcal!
http://www.maverickssurf.com/Common/Article.aspx?id=1950
Chas-doggie |
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Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:45 pm |
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vanhelmont |
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Joined: 11 Dec 2007 |
Posts: 242 |
Location: Florida |
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How can a shop not have "the right size tools?" Maybe they don't have the right tool for the lock ring, but a resourceful person can somehow pad the jaws of a pliers, if nothing else. They surely have a pin spanner for the adjustable cup and a crescent wrench for the fixed cup. You do have an ordinary old style bottom bracket, with cups, ball bearings, and a shaft with cones on it, don't you? There are a couple of different sealed bearing bottom brackets that might need special tools.
If you are using a normal bottom bracket, the surfaces have to be free of oil and grease for the loctite to stick.
If the threads are worn out (and I doubt that is the case since you seem to be able to assemble it) there is a Mavic sealed bottom bracket that doesn't use the frame's threads. Chas. could probably tell you more about it, all I know is that is exists.
Good luck!
Dave |
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| | | | | | | | | BB Threads | | | | | |
Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:30 pm |
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verktyg |
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Joined: 14 Jan 2007 |
Posts: 2814 |
Location: SF Bay Area |
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natprice wrote: |
My new bike mechanic seems to think the threads are just old and that I should look into a replacement. |
Replacement what? Threads? Bike? Mechanic?
I'm old too, does that mean I should be replaced?
When you walk into a bike shop and use the words "French" and "Bicycle" in the same sentence and you see their eyes glaze over, it's time to politely back out the door saying, "I'll be back" (just not in this life cycle)!
Loctite Thread Locker is an anaerobic liquid plastic adhesive that cures in the absence of air.
In order for it to adhere to the threads both the internal and external surfaces have to be clean and oil/grease free. If there is any dirt or oil on the threads the Loctite will fill the gaps and harden but not adhere to the metal.
If they used Loctite and it isn't working, they probably didn't clean the threads properly.
Is it the right hand fixed cup that's coming loose?
If so, take the BB apart and inspect the threads on both cups plus the inside of the BB. It's easy to cross thread these fine pitch threads.
If there is Loctite on the threads, you can remove it with lacquer thinner - it takes some time but it will eventually break down the Loctite so that you can remove it with a stiff brush like an old tooth brush.
Use caution so that you don't get it on the paint or breath too much of the fumes (you don't want to become a "Huffer").
The fixed cup on French threaded Gitanes has right hand threads - turn counterclockwise to remove and clockwise to tighten.
There is the faint possibility that some banjo picker (reference to the movie "Deliverance") buggered up the threads and ran a left hand British threaded tap into the fixed cup side. Some families are more closely related than others...
What brand of BB is it? Many of them will say 35x1.0 or something like that, Stronglight and TA have codes like the number of rings engraved in the fixed cup.
Let me know what brand BB and which side is coming loose and I'll give you some suggestions on how to proceed...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uzae_SqbmDE
Chas. |
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Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:40 pm |
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natprice |
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Joined: 16 Oct 2007 |
Posts: 35 |
Location: Gainesville, FL |
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So about the only thing I know about the bottom bracket is that my bike has one and it won't stay tightened. Mine seems to be loose on the side with the gear on it (adjustable cup?). I can see about 2mm of thread exposed on that side and it is loose enough to be tightened by hand. The other side doesn't really appear loose. There is about 1-2 mm of play from side to side if I press in the pedal arms.
Which side is the adjustable cup and which is the fixed? Where would the brand be engraved?
Here are some pics if that helps and also some pics of the frame after I got the bike painted.
[url]
http://picasaweb.google.com/NatBPrice/Gitane?feat=directlink[/url] |
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Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:30 pm |
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PBR Streetgang |
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Joined: 11 Dec 2008 |
Posts: 39 |
Location: SF |
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Hi Nat:
The fixed cup is the one that can be tightened with a big crescent wrench. It's on the drive side. The adjustable cup is the one with the lock ring. It's on the other side.
Let The Big Gator EAT! |
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Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:20 pm |
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natprice |
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Joined: 16 Oct 2007 |
Posts: 35 |
Location: Gainesville, FL |
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So I can just keep tightening the fixed cup with a crescent wrench when it becomes loose and keep on riding it?
I don't think I really have the tools to take apart the bottom bracket in order to clean everything and try the Loctite again. |
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Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:04 pm |
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PBR Streetgang |
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Joined: 11 Dec 2008 |
Posts: 39 |
Location: SF |
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natprice wrote: |
So I can just keep tightening the fixed cup with a crescent wrench when it becomes loose and keep on riding it?
I don't think I really have the tools to take apart the bottom bracket in order to clean everything and try the Loctite again. |
I suppose you can, if the bottom bracket remains properly adjusted. You never know when it might loosen up, though. Could present some danger. Someone with more mechanical experience should chime in. |
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