gitaneusa.com :: View topic - MUCH better pics- Super Corsa

BKRacer

Hi again, I got the new bike back to the house and have had some time to start the restoration. It has a full Nuovo Record group, including those beautiful high flange hubs, which makes it a Super Corsa, but it has a couple of TdeF stickers on it. One other thing that is odd is there is no derailleur hanger on the simplex dropouts, maybe this will give some idea of the year. The decals look similar to some 71's that I have seen, but they all have hangers. Everything but the seat and tires are origional, even brake pads which have very little wear.

Also I know the Nuovo Record rear derailleurs can have the spring tension adjusted. You can see in the pic that it needs it. Does anyone have any advice on how to do that?

greyhundguy

BK,
The hubs appear to be Campy Nuovo Tipo. Is there a black band for oil port in the center? That would indicate "Record". It also appears to have a Patent Date in top of the rear derailleur???

Jay

BKRacer

Thanks, there is no lube port on the hubs. And there is a date stamped on the derailleur- 72. That clears up the age of the bike. Confused

greyhundguy

BK,
I'm going to suggest you have a 71-72 TdF frame and wheelset with a nice later upgrade to Campy components. Obvious clues: Decals and hubs. Also the presence of the bridge on the rear seat stays indicates that it likely came with Mafac CP brakes. My 72 TdF also lacks the integrated RD hanger on the Simplex dropout.

Overall, a very nicely equipped Bike.

Jay

vanhelmont

BK,

Your bike has a little bridge at the top of the seat stays for a hanger for centerpulls, so it must have had the Campy sidepulls added later. My guess is somebody wanted an all Campy bike, but didn't want to wait a long time to get it, so the shop put Campy stuff on a TdF frame. The only difference from a Super Corsa frame is the Simplex dropouts and the stickers.

From the wisdom Chas has shared with us, the brake bridges disappeared after 1972, and before 1972 the top of the seat stay had an oval brazed on the top, instead of being swaged, so it likely is a 1972, matching the derailleur date.

Dave

verktyg

Greetings and thanks from all of us for posting the new pictures.

I don't want to be the bearer of bad news but you do have a Tour de France not a Super Corsa frame.

That's not all bad though. The frames were the same except that the Super Corsas had Campagnolo dropouts not Simplex and the steering tube was a little longer to fit the Campy headset. Tour de France bikes came with Stronglight P3 headsets with about a 6mm shorter stack height so the steerers were shorter.

Super Corsas were pretty rare. There were probably 10 TdFs sold for every SC. Not many cyclists had the money for an all Campy bike and if they did, they usually opted for an Italian or British bike. The French equipped TdFs and Peugeot PX10s were much more affordable so there are a lot more of them still around.

Back in the day, It was quite common for TdF owners to switch the derailleurs from Simplex to Suntour or Campy. The other thing they changed were seats, many of them put on Brooks Pros.

Campy gruppos cost more that a complete standard equipped TdF!

Campy brakes were expensive and in short supply. In 1974 when Shimano brought out their DuraAce sidepull brakes they were a lot less expensive than Campys. I saw a number of TdFs with those brakes on them.

Same thing with the Campy cranks, most owners stayed with the Stronglight 93 cranks.

Fitting a Campy headset usually required facing 4-5mm off of the head tube and fork crown. You may have received one of the TdFs that had Super Corsa forks that had long enough steering tubes to fit a Campy headset. The Super Corsa forks have Campy or Huret dropouts instead of Stronglight.

Check to make sure that the locknut on your Campy headset threads on to the steerer with at least 3 threads.

Your frame is a 1970-72 TdF based on the Prugnat lugs, swaged seat stay tops, Nervex or Wagner fork crown and brazed on rear brake cable stop for Mafac centerpull brakes at the top of the seat stays.

It appears to have the old style Simplex rear dropouts without an integral derailleur hanger - either that or some IDIOT did the unthinkable and cut it off! Evil or Very Mad

Simplex dropouts were easy to modify to fit a Campy or other brand rear derailleur. A little file work, tap the 9mm hole out to 10mm x 1mm and voilà...

Some folks also switched the pedals from the Lyotard 460Ds to Japanese made Campy knockoffs.

Oh and the hubs are Campy Nuovo Tipo not the Record hubs that would have come on a Super Corsa.

As far as the Campy rear derailleur goes, you may have a weak or broken spring or it could just be gummed up and some solvent will free it up. If there is a problem with the spring, I suggest finding a new replacement. Look on eBay or check out some older LBS (local bike shops).

One last thing, get some medium and xxxfine steel wool. It works wonders cleaning up the rust.

Chas.

BKRacer

Chas- thanks for all the info! Getting rid of all the rust is the project I am working on right now. The top tube has some rust spots where the cable was sitting. Has anyone had any luck sanding down small parts of the frame and then repainting them? I don't want to repaint the whole frame- I think having the origional paint and decals is cool even if they are a little banged up. The bike looks like it wasn't ridden much at all, but it must have been stored somewhere a little damp. Scott

verktyg

vanhelmont

BK,

I have done a minimal repair by dabbing a little rust converter on the chipped spots. It converts the rust to something that protects from further rusting, instead of promoting it. If the rust extends under the paint, the rust converter will soak in and take care of it (and the paint over the rust bubbles up and needs to be scraped or sanded off). Then you can touch up over the rust converter. Paint sticks well to the iron phosphate it leaves.

I agree, the original stickers and paint are cool. I tried to salvage the champion blue paint and what remained of the stickers on my super corsa, which was in really bad shape, by putting the rust converter on generously, but it also converted the paint to green, so I ended up stripping. In your case I'd say keep the converter just on the chipped and scratched spots, then if it does affect the paint sand lightly afterward. White paint is likely to be pretty stable chemically.

The key to touching up seems to be not to use too much paint. Get a fine brush.

Good luck with it!

Dave

verktyg · Last edited by verktyg on Fri Apr 10, 2009 1:21 pm; edited 1 time in total

verktyg

BK,

You can get automotive touch-up paint at most auto parts stores. It comes with a self contained brush and the paint is quick drying. Get the lightest shade of white. Several light coats are better than one thick coat.

Remember, you're doing a camouflage job not a concours restoration. At 5 feet you shouldn't be able to see a thing.

Manually degrease the frame with rags etc. Next I use a combination of rubbing alcohol, naphtha, mineral spirits, goo-off, 409 cleaner, orange based cleaner, xxxfine steel wool and other product to get the frame clean. It will look 100% better after a good cleaning.

Here's my 1969? TdF right after I got it. I think that it had been stored in a barn for 20 years. Notice the left chain stay vs. the right one. I spent a few minutes with steel wool on the chrome and some cleaner on the paint:

Here's what it looks like after cleaning and touching up the paint:

Have fun with your project.

One last comment, pull the stem and remove the fork and inspect the steering tube closely for cracks or damage, especially in the threads. The stem looks like it's up way too high. The expander portion of the stem quill should be inserted below the threads on the steering tube. A minimum insertion of 2" is the rule of thumb.

Use loose ball bearings. It takes 22 3/16" balls top and bottom. Get grade 25 chrome steel ball bearings.

Chas.

BKRacer

Once again thanks everyone for the input!! It looks like the stays are the swaged type, so early 70's. Yeah, just using some automotive scratch removing compound is making the bike look much better. Just got some steel wool and some white paint. So we will see what that does. I will try to get a before and after shot!
Whom ever owned the bike before me did some serious upgrades if it started out with the origional simplex/mafic/ stronglight build of the TdeF. Everything is now campy from the cranks down to the seat post and cable guides. It is a pretty sweet bike, I am super excited to get it rolling!!

sandranian · Site Admin

Great thread folks. Very informative.